SSI Class - Failed

[ScubaSteve1962]

I have been to ths shop before. I have never had a good feeling from Malcom (the instructor and owner). the problems I have had are:

1) i went into the shop to get a vip on a set of doubles. They have a price listed on the wall for the extra fee for doubles. When I asked to have it done Malcom said we aint doing it but you can take them apart on the floor. Why offer a service and then say nope? I took them apart, he looked inside and puy the stickers on them and then I put them together. After I had the bands on they covered the stickers. So I had to return to get a second set of stickers put on thet you could see.

2) ALL of his VIP stickers expire Jan 1st. I had a couple of tanks viped in September. when I went to get fills in january I realized they were all expired. I asked about just getting them done and Malcoms responce was It is a good time for everyone to get their tanks viped so I have them all expire at the end of the year. It didnt matter that he did the vip 3.5 months before.


3) Every time I go into the shop for a nitrox fill he ALWAYS says I will see what I can do, I may not have enough gas. Why sell the stuff and then complain when I come in to buy it?

4) when I have droped of my tanks for service 2 days always seem to turn into 2 weeks.


The shop has been open a lomg time. He is the second owner and has probably been the owner for at least 10 years.


My recomendation is go some where else.

---------- Post Merged at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:43 PM ----------

your recommendation is to go some somewhere else what was your first clue, and how many times are you going back.

 

[chrpai]

I think we've all been into shops that we don't have a good feeling about. Sometimes your just stuck in a bad relationship.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I think we've all been into shops that we don't have a good feeling about. Sometimes your just stuck in a bad relationship.

If you can recommend that people go somewhere else, why wouldn't you go somewhere else?

 

[DevonDiver]

The instructor is obliged to get all students ready for the open water dives at no additional charge. Short of absurd efforts, anyway

No such obligation is dictated by law, regulation or the scuba agency.

Provision of scuba training is a form of sale (of service). An individual instructor/operation will have a policy on how that sale is conducted; normally advertising a 'course of training' with illustration of what is included - i.e. theory training x5 sessions, pool skills x5 sessions, open water dives x 4.

If that is what they have advertised/contract/agreed to provide - then that is all they are 'obliged' to provide. It is the customer's role to discriminate dive training suppliers based upon what specific service/provision is provided for the money that they pay.

The construction of that course is deemed (by agency) reasonably sufficient to ensure that most students will reach the required standard for certification. There is no guarantee implicit within that.

It's interesting to note whether a dive training supplier advertises/offers a "course" or a "certification". The choice of language/term used may have a strong impact on what can reasonably be expected.

If I was sold a "course", then I would expect to receive that course - as it was described. I would assume that certification (being performance related) was not assured within the stated timescale and cost. Anything beyond the "course", to reach the level of proficiency needed for certification, would be extra.

If I was sold a "certification", then I would expect to receive that certification - with all training provided, necessary for me to reach the level of proficiency needed for certification, based on my performance.

Personally, with experience as a dive educator, I would actually rather be sold a "course", than a "certification" - because I would be happier knowing that my training provider was not subject to any external pressures (costs/time/profitability) that might influence them to qualify me for any reasons other than my own satisfactory performance.

Here is an example:

This was recently advertised here on Scubaboard - and is taken from the Groupon website:

For $299, you get an SSI open-water certification package (a $665 total value). An $80 equipment-rental fee, not included in today's Groupon, is required if customer has no equipment. The package includes the following:

• Six hours of classroom instruction and 8–10 hours of pool instruction (a $300 value)
• Course book, DVD, and logbook (a $115 value)
• Four New England open-water dives (a $250 value)

As you can see - the advertisement is explicit in listing exactly what you receive for your money - i.e. 6 hours classroom, 8-10 hours pool and 4 open water dives. That is a contract of sale.

Where it is not explicit, is in using the term "certification package" - as this might create an expectation that the student will be certified at the end of training - rather than specifically stating that certification is performance related and more training may be required to reach the required certification standards. However, any expectations are based on an implication - not a specific guarantee or statement of provision.... hence, they would be contractually incorrect.

Further vague/confusing information is provided in the Q&A section of the Groupon advert mentioned. See below:

Probably a stupid question but I'm assuming that once we were done with option 3 (and complete with the course) we would be PADI certified, correct? Thanks.
Christopher M. asked 4 months, 11 days, 6 hours, and 55 minutes ago - 1 answer

Almost correct. SSI certified. SSI (Scuba Schools International) is another internationally recognized training agency which is headquartered in Colorado. The SSI certification is recognized world wide.

Harold H.answered 4 months, 11 days, 6 hours, and 38 minutes ago

I'm interested in buying the third package, the SSI certification. I just want to clarify that if I buy this, I can get certified in two full weekends. One weekend of academic/pool training and another weekend in April/May of the open water dives. Also, the only extra cost is the one time gear rental of $80?
Leah B. asked 4 months, 12 days, 13 hours, and 34 minutes ago - 2 answers

You are correct. One weekend we spend time covering the acadmeic topics and pool skills needed on the 4 open water dives. Providing you complete everything here successfully you will be ready to complete the 4 open water dives on a later weekend. The open water weekend depends on weather, water temperature but normally by mid to late April we can go out for the dives (2/day). The 80.00 covers mask, fins, snorkel and boot rental. We suggest each diver own these items and we offer a student discount for these itmes. All other gear is covered in the tuition.
Harold H. answered 4 months, 12 days, 13 hours, and 23 minutes ago

In neither of these responses does "Harold H" (the merchant) take the opportunity to specifically rectify any misunderstanding that potential customers may have, regarding the assumption that certification is a guaranteed result of completing the provided/specified training.

However, the merchant does specifically state "providing you complete everything here successfully" in reference to progression onto OW training dives. That, at least, does 'hint' at some performance related criteria to the training - but does not clearly state what course-of-action or service provision would be followed in the event that 'everything is not completed successfully'.

 

[Superlyte27]

My contract with my students specifically states that instruction is purchased, certification is earned. If you want a class where certification is guaranteed, go elsewhere, I am not it.

 

[Dive the World]

That is really odd. Everyone passed the test but no getting the Cert - maybe you guys could get together and do two things.

1) contact the agency directly.
2) move to another instructor and "transfer credits" so to speak - you will still have to pay a little bit more - but would be better to get away from the current predicament.

 

[barrmust]

If you can recommend that people go somewhere else, why wouldn't you go somewhere else?

The issues I had with the tanks are the reason I stoped going there.

This is the closest shop to me that does nitrox fills.Then the other semi local shop that filled nitrox went out of business. There are no other local shops that do fills where you dont need O2 clean cylinders.

But becuse of the way they handle their shop I have gone out and purchased a compressor and bottles to do my own fills. So now I am at the point where I dont have to let a shop dictate any more BS to me.

This shop is a good example of NOT keeping the customer happy and why dive shops loose business.

 

[NAM001]

congrats on the move to filling your self. this stuff isnot rocket science.

regards

The issues I had with the tanks are the reason I stoped going there.

This is the closest shop to me that does nitrox fills.Then the other semi local shop that filled nitrox went out of business. There are no other local shops that do fills where you dont need O2 clean cylinders.

But becuse of the way they handle their shop I have gone out and purchased a compressor and bottles to do my own fills. So now I am at the point where I dont have to let a shop dictate any more BS to me.

This shop is a good example of NOT keeping the customer happy and why dive shops loose business.

 

[t4e]

Report this to SSI. Total BS. The instructor is obliged to get all students ready for the open water dives at no additional charge. Short of absurd efforts, anyway

i totally disagree with that line of thinking

under normal circumstances if you can't learn within the regular schedule you need to pay for additional classes
not any different than hiring a tutor if you can't grasp the material during regular school classes

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The issues I had with the tanks are the reason I stoped going there.

This is the closest shop to me that does nitrox fills.Then the other semi local shop that filled nitrox went out of business. There are no other local shops that do fills where you dont need O2 clean cylinders.

But becuse of the way they handle their shop I have gone out and purchased a compressor and bottles to do my own fills. So now I am at the point where I dont have to let a shop dictate any more BS to me.

This shop is a good example of NOT keeping the customer happy and why dive shops loose business.

okay, now it makes sense.