Spectre
Contributor
Why the hell would you want more than one?
SSI or IANTD Nitrox?
- Thread starter Rick L
- Start date
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Why the hell would you want more than one?
So why aren't your "remedial" dive up front so they go INTO the class with the skills required (besides "the agency requires me to do so")?
I guess I knew this before, but taking the DIRF class really drove this home. DIRF saved me a ton of money (so much for DIR being a marketing ploy as it's always accused of being). If you're "going technical" it's all the basic skills required for technical diving (and ALL the skllls required for non-technical diving). It has no C card. It doesn't expect you to improve one iota during the class (good thing in my case
). But it shows you where you MUST be before you even CONSIDER the next step.I knew I wasn't ready for Technical 1, but I didn't realize that I was THAT far away from it. Now I know EXACTLY where I have to be before I attempt the class.
And I'm sure (MHK may be able to help out here now that he's on the board) that Technical 1 doesn't do some classroom and then strap some trimix on you and go to 200 where the instructor does "remedial" work with you. You dive a safe gas at a safe depth and do skills to see if you're ready.
Apply this to Nitrox. Test skills up front and because there's NO new in-water skills to learn, teach them the formulas and give them a card.
Roak
Jarhead
Contributor
It gave me an excuse to drive four hours to the coast and DIVE.
Since when do we divers try to get out of diving?
BTW, Nitrox class is only $100.00 plus dive trip costs around here.
Sure, why not? As divers we should always be looking to improve our dive skills. MF or RM have to put their names on the Cert. card. If someone came in with a C-card from "elsewhere" and wanted a nitrox course. I'd make sure they could dive safely before I turned them loose with a new C-card with my name on it. There no way to do that without diving with them. Besides, It gives MF and RM another reason to get wet.
Jarhead
Soggy
Contributor
My Nitrox class was $90...period. No dive trip costs. I shouldn't need to prove my diving skills to someone every time I take a class. Drive four hours for a nitrox course!? What a waste of my time. Unless the instructor is ready to do the dives with me on my time, when I want to dive, forget it. I'm not going to pay someone to take up my time unnecessarily. I love diving just as much as anyone else here, but my dollars go to the place that makes it most convenient for me, the customer. This isn't a deep diving course or a wreck diving course or a BOW course or an AOW course....It's about learning physics and math.
I loved my OW and AOW courses. I plan on taking stress/rescue next summer. These courses require in-water time.
I isn't about learning phisics and math it's about learning more complex dive planning and diving that plan.
And yes you should have to prove your skill every time you take a class. Diving is about skills and the instructor is always responsible for making sure the requisite skills are there regardless of other certs.
financially I would love to be able to get $90 for a class with no dives. I would be money ahead.
When it comes to dive training there is far too much emphisis on convenience and too liittle on skills. The proof of that is most divers dive poorly. but hey they got a good deal and it was convenient.
Here is something to think about. The best instructors I know won't teach for a shop. They teach on their time. If you want to learn what they know you'll need to match their schedule and pay their price. You rarely find this level of talant working for minimum wage in a shop. I believe you are getting what you ask for and pay for. I'll also bet (sight unseen that your skill in the water reflects this).
Hey..I know where you can buy trimix cards too want one? How about an instructor card? I know where you can buy those also. The price is right and it's convenient and there is no need to prove your diving skill.
I find that divers with this attitude never get good and they are just a poor reflection on me. You know how you need to take an exam and have a good enough GPA to get into a good school.
Increasingly I find that life as an instructor is much better if I screen students and turn away those with the wrong attitude. They want cheap cards not knowledge and skill.
Soggy
Contributor
SSI requires that instructors be affiliated with a shop...not that they work for minimum wage at a shop. Heck, my OW instructor was a car dealer and my AOW instructor was an ex-army diver who currently owns a private airline in Mexico.
Quite an assumption for someone you know nothing about other than my opinion about nitrox dives. Let's not get personal here.
You've clearly missed my entire point. If you read my responses you'll understand why your slippery slope argument above is BS. Our disagreement is in how the skills need to be assessed. I think it is a waste of my time to be in the water for something as simple as a nitrox card. You think otherwise. We both clearly have strong opinions on the matter. You do it your way, I'll get my training with people who do it mine. I'm always interested in the best possible training, but I have a budget. You never told us how much your Nitrox course costs, BTW.
Soggy
Contributor
I can see you are no longer interested in the point and have resorted to personal attacks.
FYI, my degree is in music performance from a highly respected music school. I sought out the best education in my field and got it. I just know when something is overkill.
It isn't a personal attack. I hear the same thing from many folks who walk into my shop and I know how it usually turns out. there are always acceptions but the odds are in my favor.
I hear all the angles and see the results. Depending on what a diver wants out of diving maybe my way is overkill. However I only want my name on a divers card if they will exibit the attitude and skill set that I try to teach.
Scuba
Contributor
roakey wrote:
So true. But let's approach this from another perspective, that of the value of actual practice. You could go though all the planning, formulas, procedures, and explanations in a classroom - for ANYTHING. But the hands on knowledge and experienced gained during actual practice is beyond the capability of lectures and explanations. Otherwise there would be no need for any pool or OW sessions. As you mention this could be done without Nitrox, but I assure you from experience in another field where this is a major issue, there is a definite difference between "pretend" and "real". People will respond and act differently when the pressure of "real" is on.
There is no substitute for practice in the actual environment, under real conditions, or as realistic as possible in the case of distress recognition and rescue. This presupposes that something is actually taught and tips and pointers are given during practice.
So true. But let's approach this from another perspective, that of the value of actual practice. You could go though all the planning, formulas, procedures, and explanations in a classroom - for ANYTHING. But the hands on knowledge and experienced gained during actual practice is beyond the capability of lectures and explanations. Otherwise there would be no need for any pool or OW sessions. As you mention this could be done without Nitrox, but I assure you from experience in another field where this is a major issue, there is a definite difference between "pretend" and "real". People will respond and act differently when the pressure of "real" is on.
There is no substitute for practice in the actual environment, under real conditions, or as realistic as possible in the case of distress recognition and rescue. This presupposes that something is actually taught and tips and pointers are given during practice.
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