Ssi vs padi certification

[cmaha76]

I thought most folks on this thread agreed that the BASE curriculum is similar for PADI and SSI. No surprise that the books are similar. And if all you expect to be taught is the base curriculum, then you are correct the instructor is the sole variable.

Only when you have the choice to be taught MORE than the BASE curriculum will the agency come into play. One will encourage it, one will not. When a wonderful instructor must withhold certain skills until you have signed up for the appropriate specialty course, ask yourself if it was him (the instructor) or the agency.

I obviously can't say if SSI or PADI has a policy of withholding information as you imply, I'm not an instructor for either. I'm curious to see which agency you feel encourages instructors to withhold skills. I didn't have that experience with my SSI instructor or my PADI instructors.

 

[Splash-X]

I thought most folks on this thread agreed that the BASE curriculum is similar for PADI and SSI. No surprise that the books are similar. And if all you expect to be taught is the base curriculum, then you are correct the instructor is the sole variable.

Only when you have the choice to be taught MORE than the BASE curriculum will the agency come into play. One will encourage it, one will not. When a wonderful instructor must withhold certain skills until you have signed up for the appropriate specialty course, ask yourself if it was him (the instructor) or the agency.

Do you have any examples of what you mean by "MORE than the BASE"?

I'd like to hear more info before I ramble on about something that may or may not be what you mean.

 

[jonathon50]

i certified with PADI years ago, not because they were better, but because, 1. they were the only ones and 2. i hadnt heard of anybody else at the time! at the end of the day does it really matter as long as your taught safely?

 

[SC_Hoaty]

@ Splash-X -

See quote below from an instructor certified by both orgs for one non-specific example.

I teach both PADI and SSI. The open water program is according to the "Standards" All most EXACTLY the same. It all comes down to the instructor. We will spend however long it takes to train a diver to be safe and comfortable for however long it takes, at no additional cost. PADI or SSI, that is just the way we do it.
I have quibbles with both organizations training material, but they are very minor and I can address them in class....I am becoming more SSI oriented, as I feel they are more customer oriented. SSI ALLOWS and ENCOURAGES me to add to the base curriculum, PADI discourages this practice, I believe as it opens me, and them up to additional liability. SSI has a program that the text book is available on line after student is certified. PADI requires you to purchase a text book. I REALLY like the idea that my students can access the training material any time to brush up and refresh their knowledge.ALSO, importantly for me....SSI allows me to not license somebody who I feel is genuinely NOT safe and NEVER will be safe, with PADI..if they can meet the performance requirements, I MUST license them. There have been a few, that I wish I could have with held certification.

From my own experience - in my OW I was taught computation of SAC rate, how to use it to plan a dive to 130 feet, how to determine (during planning) if NDL limits or the amount of gas I carry would limit the dive, etc. My wife, who was PADI trained, was not taught these items in her OW.

I'm not saying ALL SSI instructors go this far, but from the quote above, I believe it is fair to say PADI discourages doing this.

@cmaha76 - it is not my opinion that PADI discourages adding to the base curriculum - it has been stated numerous times by others who are instructors. The quote above is one example from this thread. Did you miss it?

 

[Awesome!]

I've also noted differences in the tables, although both agencies have made them optional (the instructor does not need to teach tables anymore). During my SSI OW we learned reg freeflow stuff - it happened all the time in the pool with the rental gear. Maybe that was just my LDS. Did your PADI OW teach gas management and SAC computation? I ask because I'm 90+% certain that this is one area where my instructor went waaaay beyond the agency base curriculum. Just curious.

That depends how much you were taught. We learned about it. Regs shouldn't be freeflowing if they're working properly should they?

 

[vjanelle]

Padi discourages it both because they want you to take(pay for) a AOW + Deep Diver specialty, and because most people in a resort setting aren't going to do a dive they've planned, they're just going to get the tour. This is how you can do a 4(5?) day training course for $400-600...

Considering the attrition rate of certified divers never using their certificates again, what business case is there to teach something to someone when they're not even certified to go beyond 60'?

As for withholding certifications, it's only your opinion that they shouldn't be in the water... It might be a valid one, but it's way too open to abuse by someone who thinks you shouldn't be certified unless you can stay 30 degrees of horizontal in trim 1' off the bottom for 20 minutes while helicopter turning, even if you've complicated all the skills. Given that I've seen students refused to be certified by the padi instructors I've been around, it's clearly not so cut and dry as people bash padi out to be.

Either that or I mean, you could conveniently forget to turn in their PIC I guess.

 

[peterbj7]

Regs shouldn't be freeflowing if they're working properly should they?

Yes, a perfectly adjusted reg can freeflow if subjected to conditions it wasn't designed for. Extreme cold water or a strong current can set it off, not to say a malfunction in (say) the first stage that puts too much pressure into the second stage hose.

 

[Thalassamania]

Padi discourages it both because they want you to take(pay for) a AOW + Deep Diver specialty, and because most people in a resort setting aren't going to do a dive they've planned, they're just going to get the tour. This is how you can do a 4(5?) day training course for $400-600...

Considering the attrition rate of certified divers never using their certificates again, what business case is there to teach something to someone when they're not even certified to go beyond 60'? ...

There's a pretty good argument and rather convincing data that suggest students who are trained in longer classes are more confident about their diving and thus are more likely to stick with it and not contribute to the observed attrition rate.

 

[Rick Murchison]

There's a pretty good argument and rather convincing data that suggest students who are trained in longer classes are more confident about their diving and thus are more likely to stick with it and not contribute to the observed attrition rate.

I agree.
Occasionally I'll see someone who can "get it" in a quick course, but for the vast majority of folks, there needs to be some "rumination and cogitation" time thrown in between sessions to get things to sink in, and to come up with questions that need answering to get full operational (functional) understanding. In my opinion, the ideal OW course for most folks should be spread over at least 7 days, but no more than 10 - 12 weeks. There are individual exceptions on both ends...
I also think that pool time should be at least double the time needed for skills introduction and assessment. Plenty of "goof-off" time is very beneficial.
Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

It's not just how long it is spread over, it is also how much is included. While my students are not a completely fair comparison, they are highly motivated from the start, I have followed most of them for five or more years after they take the course and virtually all are still diving.