stance on ankle weights?

[do it easy]

I had this same problem at the start of the year. I think 90% of the problem was in the harness. I loosened the shoulder straps until they were ridiculously long and shortened the crotch strap- now the trim is peaceful, the valves are easier to reach (lower is easier for me than higher and AWAY) I still think it's too high compared to where it was last year because I can't see as far up as I used to. A few more dives and I'll have it right where I want it.

Everyone I talked to always swore to make the harness super tight so that you could only slide 2 pieces of paper through while wearing just a t-shirt - that just places the tanks higher up.

So, the short and skinny- loosen up the harness, and if that doesn't work, go for the ankle weights.

 

[JodiBB]

I use the ankle weights and like them personally. I find that they keep me balanced (or at least my feet pointed in the right direction!) and it's less weight in my BCD as it gets transferred to my feet and off my torso.

 

[NSDiver]

I was offered the ankle weights when I took a drysuit class a few weeks ago. I didn't put them on, and it took a few minutes to teach myself how to keep the air from going to my feet (focusing on body position mostly), but I found I didn't really need them.

If ankle weights are truly a "crutch" then I guess I'm glad I didn't use them. I suppose it helps that I dive with SP Jets though.

-Nick

 

[Mark Vlahos]

OK lots of variables to prevent floaty feet in doubles, don't try to change all of these on one dive, take it slowly.

Lots of good suggestions already.

First what cylinders are you using? There is an awful lot of difference between cylinders. Are the cylinders you are using short and fat, or long and thin? Longer cylinders will have a center of gravity that is lower on your body, this helps to prevent floaty feet.

What kind of back plate are you using? A steel plate will add weight up high, a plastic or aluminum plate will help move weight down because if you need weight you will probably wear a belt around your waist.

What fins are you using? Some fins like Jet fins are heavy and will help you.

Related to the fins, you should think about your legs. With heavy fins if you extend your legs you will put those heavy fins further out away from your center of gravity.

Arm position can also have some effect, but you will still need to do things with your hands so this is largely unimportant.

What is the position of the cylinders on your back? Try moving the cylinders down in the bands and try moving the bolts to a lower set of holes in the back plate.

What is the position of the wing? Try moving the wing up, this will move the air bubble further away from your feet.

Remember with all of these adjustments you still need to be able to reach your valves, so don't over do it.

The things I would try in order are

Cylinder position.
Wing up.
Plate type.
Fin type.
Cylinder type.

Cylinder type may play the largest role, but it is most expensive to fix so I put it last, if you are renting move it up to the top.

Things like arching your back, leg and arm position are easy and cost nothing so try them out.

Good luck,

Mark Vlahos

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

she needs to get horizontal with technique and proper overall weight placement,
including moving the bp on the tanks if needed, etc. this will take some
time to dial-in right, but it's far preferable to the "quick fix" of the ankle
weights.

Well duh, but the man said if all else fails use ankle weights.

and in a cave, when the crap hits the fan, those weights are going to get
you fin-down, and there goes your vis

I don't see how being head down is preferrable is all.

In fact I don't buy that argument, if you're weighted to be horizontal (preferably without but even with ankle weights) what makes you go fin down just because crap hits fan? I mean what my light burnt out so I have to forget everything I learned and walk out?

And they're not a crutch, they are training wheels!

 

[H2Andy]

what makes you go fin down just because crap hits fan? I
mean what my light burnt out so I have to forget everything I learned and walk out?

lol

taskload yourself close to the bottom some time and see for yourself

if you don't do it, then congratulations, you're a very, very, very good diver

 

[PaulChristenson]

So I am going to mexico in july to do cavern and intro cave (intro only if the instructor lets me, however).

Now, I've been practicing diving with doubles and practicing my "cave trim" and OOG/valve drills and whatnot in the pool. But that's besides the point. I have been wearing the wetsuit that I will be wearing down there to do my training in, and no matter how low I put my tanks and how much I adjust my BP/W, my feet are way, way floaty. If I stop finning, it takes all of 0.2 seconds for my feet to be above my head, and I look quite a spectacle doing underwater handstands. I can compensate for them if I force my head and shoulders up a bit and dropping my knees, but then I'm not completely horizontal. The minute I bring my knees up and go into proper horizontal position and stop my finning, there I am, upside down.

The only solution to this problem that comes into my head would be ankle weights. Normally I dive in a dry suit and yes, I have to use ankle weights. But I am in a wetsuit now in the pool and am still experiencing this. Are ankle weights really frowned upon in the cave community, or are they ok? Or can you offer any other solutions to my issue of ridiculously floaty legs and feet?

Do your current fins float??

If so, JetFins should help...

 

[FIXXERVI6]

So I am going to mexico in july to do cavern and intro cave (intro only if the instructor lets me, however).

Now, I've been practicing diving with doubles and practicing my "cave trim" and OOG/valve drills and whatnot in the pool. But that's besides the point. I have been wearing the wetsuit that I will be wearing down there to do my training in, and no matter how low I put my tanks and how much I adjust my BP/W, my feet are way, way floaty. If I stop finning, it takes all of 0.2 seconds for my feet to be above my head, and I look quite a spectacle doing underwater handstands. I can compensate for them if I force my head and shoulders up a bit and dropping my knees, but then I'm not completely horizontal. The minute I bring my knees up and go into proper horizontal position and stop my finning, there I am, upside down.

The only solution to this problem that comes into my head would be ankle weights. Normally I dive in a dry suit and yes, I have to use ankle weights. But I am in a wetsuit now in the pool and am still experiencing this. Are ankle weights really frowned upon in the cave community, or are they ok? Or can you offer any other solutions to my issue of ridiculously floaty legs and feet?

Avoid ankle weights, they are simply not needed, by anyone, if you feel you need ankle weights to stay trimmed out then you should look at your entire rig and see if the rig itself is balanced, so many people do not know how to build a balanced rig and I see/hear this complaint often due to un balanced rigs.

First off the dry suit, is it custom cut or off the rack? if its off the rack are the legs too big, are the foot socks/boots too big and getting too much air in them? if so then use gaitors and or foot gaitors or get a custom cut suit, not everyone can afford a custom suite so gaitors / foot gaitors work very well and are cheap.

Second, tanks, some people swear by a certain set of tanks, but they may not be the right tanks for you, 95's and 98's tend to be too short and will tip you over head down and feet up, my wife is short and 95's balance out perfect for her, for me I'm taller and 108's balance out perfect for me, if your tipping feet up in a wetsuit chances are very high that your using the wrong tanks, may I ask what tanks you are using and your height?

3rd canister light do you dive one? if so what style is it and where is it placed? if you have a sartek style canister that is long and skinny placed on your back plate that moves weight up, by switchign to a waste canister moves weight down, feet heavy.

4th fins, what kind of fins do you dive? some fins are positive bouyant, some in between and some negative.

Moving the plate around and wing around will allow you to "dial in" trim balance but its not the end all answer, if your rig is not balanced, its simply not balanced.

Ankle weights are a big no no, if you need them, something is wrong some place else, what happens if you are up in a tight silty tunnel with high pucker factor and you lose an ankle weight, the pucker factor gets higher, its bad ju ju.

Check out negative fins such as jet fins, turtle fins, put spring straps on them, evaluate yoru exposure protection, evaluate your tanks and gear posistion, get with experienced divers and work with them, no one needs ankle weights, unless your rig is not balanced.

 

[creamofwheat]

thank you all for the suggestions. I appreciate it.

Now, to answer some questions that have been asked...

it was indeed an SS backplate, and I was diving with AL80s. I was actually using some SP jet fins, and the suit was a 7mm, so it's pretty buoyant. My shoulder straps are actually pretty tight, so tight that it is hard to get into, but I find if I lengthen them, the rig slips around on my back. I am a very small, 5'5" 110lb woman.

Regarding task loading, I am one of the ones that goes feet and knees down when taskloaded. If I lose my mask, I can deal with that in a fairly horizontal postion, but as soon as my regulator comes out of my mouth as well, or as soon as my air gets shut off, there I go, more vertical than horizontal. I really need to work on that.

Anyway, I will take all of your suggestion to heart and play around with my rig even more than I already have in hopes of finally not going fin-up. Mind you, I have no problems in a single tank, it's just when I strap on doubles.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

thank you all for the suggestions. I appreciate it.

Now, to answer some questions that have been asked...

it was indeed an SS backplate, and I was diving with AL80s. I was actually using some SP jet fins, and the suit was a 7mm, so it's pretty buoyant. My shoulder straps are actually pretty tight, so tight that it is hard to get into, but I find if I lengthen them, the rig slips around on my back. I am a very small, 5'5" 110lb woman.

Regarding task loading, I am one of the ones that goes feet and knees down when taskloaded. If I lose my mask, I can deal with that in a fairly horizontal postion, but as soon as my regulator comes out of my mouth as well, or as soon as my air gets shut off, there I go, more vertical than horizontal. I really need to work on that.

Anyway, I will take all of your suggestion to heart and play around with my rig even more than I already have in hopes of finally not going fin-up. Mind you, I have no problems in a single tank, it's just when I strap on doubles.

Some aluminum tanks go butt light and head down as the pressure drops, they do make a tank that is neutral 80 that has extra aluminum in the bottom, and of course steel tanks balance out better than any aluminum tank and come in a wider range of shapes and sizes, E7-120 for example is a pretty long tank.

Main thing is be patient, don't be afraid to try different rigs, make and adjustments, spend some time with it, if it doesn't work, change something else, take the time to make a balanced rig and you'll be glad you never touched ankle weights.