Steel tanks dangerous?

[Remy B.]

I think most failures are at the attachment of the inflator hose to the bc. Which is usually one of the highest point in the profile of most divers. It has happened to me once. But thanks for pointing out the options. In the water, one can not decipher where the leak is. Hindsight is 20/20z.[/QUOTE}

If you do a lot of solo diving, then that requires redundancy, you are patching the main problem that is redundancy and not focusing on the correct solution, if you are that concerned of a mayor failure of your BCD, then you need a dry suit, you can find Neoprene drysuits which are very robust and cheap compared to the Tri-laminated ones

 

[rsingler]

if you ditch it may help you do an uncontrolled ascent to the surface

This is largely a myth!! Yes, if you are in a thick wetsuit with an empty Aluminum cylinder, and jettison your weight from depth, you may be positively buoyant all the way to the surface. But in that bcd failure scenario, the problem is not that you jettisoned your weight, but that you jettisoned too much weight.

This issue is the whole reason that Buoyancy, Balanced Rigs, Failures and Ditching – a comprehensive tool was created.

The truth is that, with some knowledge of the issues at work, when you jettison the correct amount of weight in the event of a catastrophic bcd failure and no redundant buoyancy (which is its own discussion), there is a depth at which you are neutrally buoyant as your wetsuit reexpands. You are NOT rocketing to the surface. Above that depth, you gradually become more buoyant and need to exhale and perhaps flare to slow your ascent. But that depth is usually much less than 30 feet, and you can have paused as long as necessary to offgas prior to the final buoyant ascent. There is NO rocketing with a properly performed partial weight ditching.

This is especially true for the steel doubles examples being touted here as so dangerous. What little lead you can jettison will be barely enough to allow you to fin up until wetsuit reexpansion begins to assist you. But you will likely arrive still negatively buoyant, or at best a few pounds positive.

Look at the tool. Do the math.
This rocket scenario is more likely for an overweighted diver who didn't need all that lead in the first place. Yes, if you use the tool, you can come back to me with an isolated tank/wetsuit combination where lead should not be jettisoned. But isn't that the point? Knowing in advance when you can use partial weight ditching at depth as a last resort rescue when your bcd failed, your buddy disappeared and you forgot your SMB?

Uncontrolled ascent after ditching weight at depth does not occur until AFTER you ascend past the neutral buoyancy depth, which is generally quite shallow. If you are properly weighted.

 

[DanielRJones]

This is largely a myth!! Yes, if you are in a thick wetsuit with an empty Aluminum cylinder, and jettison your weight from depth, you may be positively buoyant all the way to the surface. But in that bcd failure scenario, the problem is not that you jettisoned your weight, but that you jettisoned too much weight.

This issue is the whole reason that Buoyancy, Balanced Rigs, Failures and Ditching – a comprehensive tool was created.

The truth is that, with some knowledge of the issues at work, when you jettison the correct amount of weight in the event of a catastrophic bcd failure and no redundant buoyancy (which is its own discussion), there is a depth at which you are neutrally buoyant as your wetsuit reexpands. You are NOT rocketing to the surface. Above that depth, you gradually become more buoyant and need to exhale and perhaps flare to slow your ascent. But that depth is usually much less than 30 feet, and you can have paused as long as necessary to offgas prior to the final buoyant ascent. There is NO rocketing with a properly performed partial weight ditching.

This is especially true for the steel doubles examples being touted here as so dangerous. What little lead you can jettison will be barely enough to allow you to fin up until wetsuit reexpansion begins to assist you. But you will likely arrive still negatively buoyant, or at best a few pounds positive.

Look at the tool. Do the math.
This rocket scenario is more likely for an overweighted diver who didn't need all that lead in the first place. Yes, if you use the tool, you can come back to me with an isolated tank/wetsuit combination where lead should not be jettisoned. But isn't that the point? Knowing in advance when you can use partial weight ditching at depth as a last resort rescue when your bcd failed, your buddy disappeared and you forgot your SMB?

Uncontrolled ascent after ditching weight at depth does not occur until AFTER you ascend past the neutral buoyancy depth, which is generally quite shallow. If you are properly weighted.

That is why I never said rocketing. I said uncontrolled no matter if that is uncontrolled from 5m or from 15m there is a period of that ascent that you are not in the driving seat for and aslong as you go in knowing this it is not a problem.
Personally i dive a 12 or 15l steel tank and use a drysuit

 

[rsingler]

That is why i never said rocketing. I said uncontrolled no matter if that is uncontrolled from 5m or from 15m there is a period of that ascent that you are not in the driving seat for and aslong as you go in knowing this it is not a problem.
Personally i dive a 12 or 15l steel tank and use a drysuit

I'll accept that, and I apologize for misconstruing your comments. For those just reading along, "uncontrolled ascent" generates quite a different mental picture for many divers.

 

[drbill]

Back when I dove with a steel HP120, I carried 38# on my weight belt (intentionally over-weighted due to the desire to be stable on the bottom in shallow water to film). Even with that, I had no trouble doing a CESA when the dip (debris) tube in my valve clogged causing no air to flow at 80 fsw. Fortunately that was at the beginning of my dive (after a head-first descent) and I took 75 seconds to ascend.

 

[rsingler]

And that is the definition of a Scuba Legend. Finning 38# of lead and 10# of air up? I can't even imagine it.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I think steel tanks are pretty dangerous. I have two 100 steels and one time one went after my toe. I keep them in the back of the closet now just to be safe.

 

[DanielRJones]

And that is the definition of a Scuba Legend. Finning 38# of lead and 10# of air up? I can't even imagine it.

When you have to in a life or death you will be surprised what your body can do when your brain turns off the limiting software

 

[johndiver999]

This is largely a myth!! Yes, if you are in a thick wetsuit with an empty Aluminum cylinder, and jettison your weight from depth, you may be positively buoyant all the way to the surface. But in that bcd failure scenario, the problem is not that you jettisoned your weight, but that you jettisoned too much weight.

This issue is the whole reason that Buoyancy, Balanced Rigs, Failures and Ditching – a comprehensive tool was created.

The truth is that, with some knowledge of the issues at work, when you jettison the correct amount of weight in the event of a catastrophic bcd failure and no redundant buoyancy (which is its own discussion), there is a depth at which you are neutrally buoyant as your wetsuit reexpands. You are NOT rocketing to the surface. Above that depth, you gradually become more buoyant and need to exhale and perhaps flare to slow your ascent. But that depth is usually much less than 30 feet, and you can have paused as long as necessary to offgas prior to the final buoyant ascent. There is NO rocketing with a properly performed partial weight ditching.

This is especially true for the steel doubles examples being touted here as so dangerous. What little lead you can jettison will be barely enough to allow you to fin up until wetsuit reexpansion begins to assist you. But you will likely arrive still negatively buoyant, or at best a few pounds positive.

Look at the tool. Do the math.
This rocket scenario is more likely for an overweighted diver who didn't need all that lead in the first place. Yes, if you use the tool, you can come back to me with an isolated tank/wetsuit combination where lead should not be jettisoned. But isn't that the point? Knowing in advance when you can use partial weight ditching at depth as a last resort rescue when your bcd failed, your buddy disappeared and you forgot your SMB?

Uncontrolled ascent after ditching weight at depth does not occur until AFTER you ascend past the neutral buoyancy depth, which is generally quite shallow. If you are properly weighted.

People won’t listen. They all parrot the rocket to the surface scenario, when stopping at the neutral depth and then spreading eagle and flairing out will very effectively reduce the ascent rate.

Far, far more practical than telling people
To somehow ascend inverted so as to. Retain air in a compromised bc whose location of failure is quite likely unknowable at depth.
Steel tanks ARE more dangerous IF they cause a diver to carry insufficient droppable ballast.

The concept is quite simple, yet seems elusive to so many. The same as the concept that the wetsuit’s change in buoyancy can be much more of an issue than the air capacity of a single tank.

 

[johndiver999]

And that is the definition of a Scuba Legend. Finning 38# of lead and 10# of air up? I can't even imagine it.

He never said he had a bc failure, hardly a legendary feat. Might actually be easier with all the air in the bc to expand