Struggling with strobe

[Mel.B]

Hi,

I've got a D180 strobe and I'm struggling to use it. I've got a couple of issues, so any input into them would be wonderful.

1. This is the advice I was given in another thread about starting to use the strobe...

"So, if you want "automatic" PHS operation (push here, stupid), then go to shutter priority and set the speed to 1/60 which is the slowest speed at which you can hold the camera steady without a tripod. Make sure the flash isn't on "auto" - should be "slow" for TTL. Set the EV to -1.0. Take a picture and see if it looks okay and then continue firing away."

I've tried this and most of the photos are too dark. What do I adjust on the strobe? I've tried various things but none of them seem to be right. Or is it strobe placement. Which brings me to my second question.

2. Where/how do I position the strobe? Do you move the strobe head around? It doesn't seem to me that the flash from the stobe is very powerful or is this just an illusion? I'm moving the strobe around a bit to try and get it right and then the locline arms fall apart! It's all so frustrating at the moment!

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I got the strobe to try and improve my pictures and at the moment I know I can get better photos with just the onboard flash.

I'll try and find some examples to show the difficulties I am having.

Thanks,
mel

 

[Mel.B]

Ok, here are some photos to demonstrate the difficulties i am having...

This picture is too dark...

EXIF data: F8, 1/60, iso 64 Shutter P

This one is overexposed

EXIF: F8, 1/60 iso 64, shutter P

Too dark again...

5.6, F1/60 iso 64, shutter p

This one is with only the internal strobe...

EXIF : 5.6, 1/30, iso 329, normal (P) mode

This one was with the strobe, but it doesn't look like it worked..

EXIF: 2.3, 1/60, iso 64 shutter P

This one seems to have come together ok, but the kelp got in the way and then the camera died!


Mel

 

[alcina]

First, I'd dump P mode and use M mode - your shutter speeds are dangerously low and that's going to make things really difficult for you on all sorts of levels.

This picture is too dark...

EXIF data: F8, 1/60, iso 64 Shutter P
Doesn't look like the strobe is hitting your subject so this is most likely an aiming issue - kind of looks like you have a bit more light hitting the upper right corner. Remember that your light comes out in a cone shape - and remember to use your review feature...you should be able to see this in the viewfinder and bump the strobe setting to a higher light output. Shoot, review, adjust, shoot - especially on static subjects you should be taking several frames each.

This one is overexposed

EXIF: F8, 1/60 iso 64, shutter P
Your light is on the subject here. A higher shutter would have helped as will turning down the strobe and/or moving the strobe farther away. Again - shoot, review, adjust, shoot...this should have seemed pretty bright in the viewfinder. Usually I find that too bright is easier to see than too dark if it's all over the image.

Too dark again...

5.6, F1/60 iso 64, shutter p
Strobe direction again, I think, and very low power setting. The strobe for this shot needs a more power or you need to move it closer to the subject. Sick of "shoot, review, adjust, shoot" yet??

This one is with only the internal strobe...

EXIF : 5.6, 1/30, iso 329, normal (P) mode
Strobe direction again. Looks like you have light falling on the upper part of the frame and to the right. You need to move it across to the left more. The strobe for this shot needs a little more power or you need to move it closer to the subject. Sick of "shoot, review, adjust, shoot" yet?? Oops, now I see it was internal only - not enough power and a weird shadow in the left corner that an external should have eliminated.

This one was with the strobe, but it doesn't look like it worked..

EXIF: 2.3, 1/60, iso 64 shutter P
Yikes! A perfect example of why you need to get out of P mode. Too slow shutter and wide open aperture creates a very soft image. You are likely too far away here for the strobe to be of much use - you could try bumping the power up, but you probably won't get a lot of benefits...you need to get closer! But it's very cute!

This one seems to have come together ok, but the kelp got in the way and then the camera died!

What a cutie!! Pretty good exposure and aiming of the strobe. His eye is pretty sharp and the kelp in front could make a nice frame - play with some cropping options, I say!

Are you shooting RAW? If not, and your camera supports it, switch. YOu will have some more room to play with exposure then.

Does your camera have a histogram feature? If so, turn it on and use it - an excellent tool that shows you right away how close your exposure is to what you want.

I'm surprised your loclines are falling apart when you move them - you might need new bits. Mine are years old and I move my strobe around a great deal on a dive. It takes great effort on my part to pop the arms apart both on land and underwater!

Yes, you need to move your strobe around. Many shots will require adjustments of some sort and this is a quick and easy way to do it. An external strobe lets you determine where you want the light to fall from so keeping it still isn't particularly useful. As a very general rule of thumb, move the strobe head away from the camera so just the edge of the cone of light falls on your subject and not the water around it (this helps reduce backscatter and makes sure that you are getting a good exposure on the part you want to light!).

I can't remember the last time I dropped my shutter to below 1/100 - in fact, it's been weeks since I dropped below 1/320. Your water there looks like there is some ambient light - not dark dark like the PNW or New England area where a longer shutter might be necessary. Use your strobe to light your subject and the shutter to control the background - on the group of fish a nice fast shutter would have given you a great darker blue for the school to stand out from and your strobe would have just kissed them with light to get the details.

A nice collection of images - don't get discouraged...get wet again and keep shooting!

 

[herman]

The only thing I can add to alcina is to use your aiming light. It does use up battery but it's very helpful when learning to aim the strobe. I use mine quite a bit when adjusting the strobe.

 

[Mel.B]

Thanks alcina for the detailed replies. I've just got a couple of questions...

"bump the strobe setting to a higher light output".

Which is the dial on the D180 to do this? I think these were taken with 'auto' or 'full'. Is M-2 stronger than M-4?

When using M mode, do you match the apperture on the camera to the apperture numbers (I think that's what they are) on the back of the strobe? If not, what number should it on?

"Are you shooting RAW? If not, and your camera supports it, switch"
I have an Oly 5050 so I can shoot RAW, but I need to get some bigger cards.

"Does your camera have a histogram feature? If so, turn it on and use it - an excellent tool that shows you right away how close your exposure is to what you want."
Not sure if the Oly has this feature...I'll have to have a play with it.

"I'm surprised your loclines are falling apart when you move them - you might need new bits"
The arms are just new...maybe I have been too heavy handed with them, twisting them the wrong ways!

Thanks again for the advice...I'm going to try and get out again for a couple of dives this weekend and if that fails I think I'm going to hit the big swimmers rockpool with some plastic fish for practise! I'm heading to Sipadan in Nov and I really want to get the hang of the strobe before then.

Mel

 

[Mel.B]

Ok, just found the histogram on the Oly...very cool. What is the ideal histogram then that I'm aiming for.... a bell curve shape or more a flatter rounder shape, higher in the reds sloping down into the blue? (Which is what the cowfish is like?)

Thanks again
Mel

 

[f3nikon]

Isn’t TTL/auto shooting just marvelous? Look on the bright side; at least you didn’t waste any film. Your strobe seems to be all over the map on this one. Aiming the strobe does not seem to be the problem on the underexposed pictures, either the strobe did not come up to full charge before firing or the TTL was just plain confused or since you are in shutter priority mode the camera is just adusting the aperture for the sunlight or background light, not knowig that you will be blasting the subject with a strobe.

Who recommended shooting in shutter priority mode? Try shooting in aperture priority or manual mode.

Dive Safe

 

[Dee]

Not much to add to all this excellent advice. I can repeat...shoot, review, adjust, shoot! Use the aiming light on your strobe, it's invaluable especially at night.

There are several way to use the setting on the D-180. I use mine on Full and adjust the strength by turning the aperture dial. One note....I have never had perfect lighting shots by matching the strobe aperture with the camera aperture. Don't worry about matching them exactly, there's just too many variables....shoot, review, adjust, shoot! Once I get the exposure dialed in, I may only adjust the strobe one setting either way the rest of the trip.

You must really be cranking down on that loc-line arm! Mine is well over 5yrs old and still stiff as brand new.

 

[alcina]

Mel - as a guideline only the historgram should be a bell curve in the middle, more or less. You definitely want to avoid hard spikes on the far right as this is overexposure. The histrogram on the oly is luminence, not RGB so it isn't showing you colours.

I don't mind some leaning towards the left in a lot of shots. The right hand side is your shadow area. You'll see a lot of acitivity there if you are leaving one area of the frame pretty dark and highlihting your subject with the strobe.

GET BIGGER CARDS! RAW is invaluable as you can play with your exposure a little bit. I find the visual very helpful in seeing what I should have done and should do next time on an image. Again, another way that digital really accelerates the learning curve. In RAW converter you will see one histrogram, but it overlays colour and luminence.

In levels in PS you can click the box open and see each individual colour - red, green, blue. You'll have to practice to see what is pleasing to you eye. Curves is a great way to do this, but I don't find it particularly easy to use completely correctly so often skip it I really need to learn PS better.

I'd follow Dee's advice on the strobe as I don't have a 180. My guess is that you will need to treat the aperture values on the strobe as power settings. So each click to the right give you just a bit less light (I think, correct me if I'm backwards, Dee). As she says, forget about matching them up with the camera. Just like switching to manual on the camera itself so you control the image, you're going to have to switch to "manual" in your mind for the strobe. On your next dive, I'd spend the first few minutes on a stationary subject, set the aperture to f5.6 and the shutter to 1/250 (these are random) and shoot it as many clicks on your strobe as you have. This will let you get a feel for the difference in light your strobe can put out there.

Make sure your batteries are freshly charged each time for your strobe to ensure you are getting the fastest recycle time. There is a little light (I think) on the back of the strobe to indicate it's ready. I can hear mine, too.

HTH