The amount of diluted shampoo is negligible and I bet lots less impactful than peeing in the wetsuit.
Supporting my local dive shop(s) is frustrating
- Thread starter ssssnake529
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jonhall
Contributor
This thread has changed from a thread that had potential to be helpful to other new divers, and not necessarily you, to one with no real purpose. As the original poster, you didn't ask for any advice (which I happen to have acknowledged in a previous post) but you took, as many do, some things personal as if it was about you, and admittedly, several posts were directed to you. Does it really make any difference that people replied to this thread even though you didn't ask for anything? With social media, people not only tend to write things they probably wouldn't say out loud to a person, but people also often "hear" a written reply in a tone they think something is being said/written, if that makes any sense. You also have to consider that, using this thread as an example, someone jumped in late and never read your original post, so began to reply to what they thought the thread was about, which happens quite often.
In this thread where you have not asked for anyone to reply with their thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations, you're still posting. As a new SB member, you will see the vast majority of threads are open for a discussion of some sort. If you are not asking for anything in particular, the question isn't
[so why not?]
but why??? What purpose does it serve? Don't let others goad you on. The nice thing is each individual has the power to post or not post (as well as read or not read.)
Whew - I didn't realize how much this thread started to tick me off!
I will use my power to refrain from coming back to this thread, but will contribute to the "changed direction" it has taken: Why mask defog or shampoo - I still use spit.
MaxTorque
Contributor
One question to the OP, what sort of scuba diver are you in terms of how you see your scuba gear?
Let me, try to explain!
There are broadly two kinds of divers in my experience.
1) Divers for whom the actual diving is the sport. The gear they use is a necessary evil, and is seen simply as a tool to enable them to dive
2) Divers for whom the sport is the diving, but also everything else, and especially the gear itself. They are as interested in the gear as the dives - well, maybe not quite, until you get to CCR level...... ;-)
Divers in group 1, really need to choose gear that suits how they dive and stick with it. Yes, get it serviced appropriately and look after it, but they generally don't want to spend too much time understanding or modifying / changing that gear. They'll come back from a dive, wash it, dry it, put it away and that's it.
Divers in group 2 will change everything all the time, modify, rebuild, experiment. For them, this is at least half the fun of the sport! It gives them something to do when out of the water, which, lets be honest, unless you are lucky enough to live somewhere you can dive from your doorstep, and your job allows you to do that, is the majority of the time
Now the reason this matters is this makes a large difference in what your choice of gear should be. For divers in group 2, a BP&W setup, being endlessly modifyable is great, but for divers in group 1, it's a phaff. The gear hasn't changed, it's the expectation / attitude of the diver that has changed. If you think you might progress to some techincal diving, or are even interested to want to progress your skills beyond the basics, then this sort of "flexible gear" is really a great buy.
On the other hand, if you just want to dive, perhaps on holiday, are happy enough diving without pushing any limits or doing anything more challanging, you'd be better of with a gear set more optimised for that case. A comfy, robust jacket BCD, yes, often frowned upon by more technical divers, but really, for purely recreational diving they just work. Easy to put on and take off, simple to maintain, comfy to wear, and not really user servicable, this is perfect for our Group 1 divers!
These groups tend to fall into the nomencular of "recreational" and "technical" diving, but i think those terms are a little confusing for new divers, where at first, everything is new and "technical" after all! And you can theoretically be, although it's uncommon, a Group 1 diver doing technical diving
So before you jump in , could i ask you at least consider what path you and your wife might take into the fun world of diving! And remember neither path is wrong or right, or better or worse whatever anyone might say,but they are different and they do affect the "best choice" of gear for you
I'm sure our more experienced divers on here are more than willing to make suggestions for each of those cases, so perhaps the OP could expand on where they would like to dive in their first scuba year etc?
Let me, try to explain!
There are broadly two kinds of divers in my experience.
1) Divers for whom the actual diving is the sport. The gear they use is a necessary evil, and is seen simply as a tool to enable them to dive
2) Divers for whom the sport is the diving, but also everything else, and especially the gear itself. They are as interested in the gear as the dives - well, maybe not quite, until you get to CCR level...... ;-)
Divers in group 1, really need to choose gear that suits how they dive and stick with it. Yes, get it serviced appropriately and look after it, but they generally don't want to spend too much time understanding or modifying / changing that gear. They'll come back from a dive, wash it, dry it, put it away and that's it.
Divers in group 2 will change everything all the time, modify, rebuild, experiment. For them, this is at least half the fun of the sport! It gives them something to do when out of the water, which, lets be honest, unless you are lucky enough to live somewhere you can dive from your doorstep, and your job allows you to do that, is the majority of the time
Now the reason this matters is this makes a large difference in what your choice of gear should be. For divers in group 2, a BP&W setup, being endlessly modifyable is great, but for divers in group 1, it's a phaff. The gear hasn't changed, it's the expectation / attitude of the diver that has changed. If you think you might progress to some techincal diving, or are even interested to want to progress your skills beyond the basics, then this sort of "flexible gear" is really a great buy.
On the other hand, if you just want to dive, perhaps on holiday, are happy enough diving without pushing any limits or doing anything more challanging, you'd be better of with a gear set more optimised for that case. A comfy, robust jacket BCD, yes, often frowned upon by more technical divers, but really, for purely recreational diving they just work. Easy to put on and take off, simple to maintain, comfy to wear, and not really user servicable, this is perfect for our Group 1 divers!
These groups tend to fall into the nomencular of "recreational" and "technical" diving, but i think those terms are a little confusing for new divers, where at first, everything is new and "technical" after all! And you can theoretically be, although it's uncommon, a Group 1 diver doing technical diving
So before you jump in , could i ask you at least consider what path you and your wife might take into the fun world of diving! And remember neither path is wrong or right, or better or worse whatever anyone might say,but they are different and they do affect the "best choice" of gear for you
I'm sure our more experienced divers on here are more than willing to make suggestions for each of those cases, so perhaps the OP could expand on where they would like to dive in their first scuba year etc?
Slight disagreement. I started in group 1. I hated jackets from day one and went straight to back inflate. I then found and tried a backplate wing. I simply found backplate wing more comfortable. For either group it's about each person's individual preferences and what they find most comfortable...... until they go tech, then things change a bit.
MaxTorque
Contributor
We do change! But i think i can still pigeon hole you into one group or the other! lol!!
It's an attitude as much as anything, bought vs made, fix vs replace, std vs modified
I suspect most divers move towards group 2 as they progress in the sport, as generally more interest in a sport leads to more knowledge and understanding.
But starting from the beginning, i think most people can give a resonably honest opinion on which side they sit.
ie, my regset has a small stream of bubbles from the SPG hose:
1) to the local dive shop i go
2) ah, that's be the swivel o rings, i've got some spares, i'll stick those in and see if it fixes the problem
Now, perhaps, you do 2 and it doesn't fix the problem and then "to the dive shop i go" but your tried at least
It's an attitude as much as anything, bought vs made, fix vs replace, std vs modified
I suspect most divers move towards group 2 as they progress in the sport, as generally more interest in a sport leads to more knowledge and understanding.
But starting from the beginning, i think most people can give a resonably honest opinion on which side they sit.
ie, my regset has a small stream of bubbles from the SPG hose:
1) to the local dive shop i go
2) ah, that's be the swivel o rings, i've got some spares, i'll stick those in and see if it fixes the problem
Now, perhaps, you do 2 and it doesn't fix the problem and then "to the dive shop i go" but your tried at least
OP
ssssnake529
Contributor
Currently, I'm not a diver. However, given how I engage in all of my other sports, I will almost certainly end up in group 2. (My wife is a firm group 1.)
I considered a BP&W set up, but it seemed like when putting together a BP&W kit, there are a lot of variables to evaluate and choose from. I figured that my chances of getting all those variables correct and assembling a BP&W kit that worked well was quite small when I have zero experience. A lightweight back inflate BCD seemed like a good compromise and a "gateway" to a BP&W setup further down the road.
The BCD is the article that has given me the most angst. I'm going to have to just pick one with the characteristics that I want and hope that it works out well for me. Of the three I am currently considering, I personally know a lot of people that use and like the Rogue, so that's the one I will probably end up with.
The Garmin computer/watch was an easy choice because I already use (and love) a very similar Garmin watch so I am familiar with its functions. Also, the relatively long range of the Garmin T1 transmitter means that I can monitor my wife's air while I am diving, which I like.
I picked the Atomic ST1 regulator because it's made in the USA, which I prefer, and it's the only reg I could find that is machined from solid steel, rather than chrome plated brass. I also really like the ball swivel feature that allows the second stage to pivot freely. I'm sure I could have picked a regulator that provides roughly equivalent function at a lower price, but I'm willing to pay a bit extra to get exactly what I want.
Fins and snorkel are the two items I've actually been able to try out a bit before I purchased. I used a number of different models and these fins and snorkel were the most comfortable and felt the best in use of any I tried.
I'm still not fully sold on the integrated inflator/secondary air source. I can see a lot of benefits of the traditional, separate octopus. I may actually buy a traditional octopus and try both systems and see which I prefer before I ditch the octo in favor of the inflator/secondary combo. So, for a while at least, I may end up with a dorky rig with both the inflator/secondary and the separate octo.
All the rest of my choices are pretty generic.
BPW seems imtidating but really is the simplest. Does one of your local shops know them and can help you fit it? Also look at the guide here in the BC section.
What "variables"? The standardization of the BP/W rig is seen by most divers as part of its appeal. A BP/W package comes with all the D-rings and such that you need, and where they go on the rig is pretty much standardized. The low cost is another part of its appeal. Like most of us here who advocate the BP/W, I had previously owned various BCDs over the years. Looking back, I feel like that was a lot of money spent needlessly.
As much as I prefer the BP/W rig over a BCD, I wouldn't discourage you from going the BCD route. You may very well prefer it. And it sounds like money is no object, so sure, why not buy a "gateway" to a different setup.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
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