Surface Markers, Lift Bags, etc. What gives?

[Uncle Pug]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
Uncle not being DIR may I ask background info on what some of THESE are for?[/URL]

the picture is not of my pockets so I will just make comment on why I carry what I do... and you can make inferences regarding the picture.

In my right pocket I carry things that I will likely use on the dive:
Wetnotes for communication, notes and reference (deco, ect.)
Lift bag/spool for marking ascent position.

In my left pocket I carry back-up items:
Spare mask for IF I should lose my mask.
Dive Alert for surface signalling if necessary.
Shears in case knife is lost or wire must be cut.
P-valve bolt in case bolt is lost and cath ruptures.
Spare double end bolt-snap for when bolt-snap on spool is dropped.

I don't always carry all of these items... just what I need for the dive at hand. And if I needed something else then I would take it along too.

Apologies for taking so long to answer this.

 

[Popeye]

Mo2vation,

Some people find difficulty in removing a full size lift bag from the back pad.

I mounted mine below, in a Dive Rite bag (see picture).

This worked out well for me.

One thing I noticed when swtiching to a BP/W was lack of pocket space.

I don't often dive dry, and thigh pockets weren't an option for me.

I clip my spool to the left D-ring.

A sausage will work just fine as a surface marker.

Unless you clip it, or have a pocket, I dunno how you'd stow it.

The backplate pad may work just fine.

I owned a lift bag first, and stuck with it.

I had a Dive Rite reel at first, but switched to a spool because I found it simpler and easier to use.

Enjoy the new backplate.

 

[Popeye]

I mounted mine below, in a Dive Rite bag (see picture).

 

[DiverBuoy]

I honestly thought the picture I referenced was DIR/GUE law - with the little bands and all the redundant components being required by divers who adhere to the philosophy. But you are allowed to alter what you carry on each dive ... flexibility is good. I was under the impression that you had to be kitted the same for all diving. Or I had heard one kit works for every diving environment.

One more thing - can you break this down for me: "P-valve bolt in case bolt is lost and cath ruptures." Maybe a scenario?

 

[Uncle Pug]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
DIR/GUE law

Common misconception... actually for some it is an intentionally exagerated complaint... that said, we do try to keep a standardized kit so that we know what our buddy is carrying and where it is to be found... but certainly the dive would have something to do with the necessity of carrying specific items.

One more thing - can you break this down for me: "P-valve bolt in case bolt is lost and cath ruptures." Maybe a scenario?

The P-valve bolt is very small and easy to include and having it ziptied to a small bolt snap takes care of two items: extra bolt and spare bolt snap for locking off the spool... since it lives in my left pocket it isn't something I would bother taking out even if it were not needed for a specific dive.

Scenario 1... p-valve bolt is lost by unscrewing it too far, cath breaks or comes off, check valve is stuck open (for the balanced user... un-balanced has no check valve.) The spare would be used to replace the lost bolt and prevent or stop a flood.

Scenario 2... p-valve bolt not installed (this is the way I usually dive), cath breaks or comes off, check valve is stuck open... I dive with a balance p-valve so I feel comfortable not having the bolt in place since both the cath and the check valve would have to fail for me to get a flood... but I do carry the spare bolt for this.

BTW... there are dives that I do not bother using a cath and hooking up the p-valve and on these I always have a bolt screwed into the p-valve.

 

[MechDiver]

Popeye once bubbled...
I mounted mine below, in a Dive Rite bag (see picture).

Nice rig Popeye, but why not just use two loops of bungie for the bag? Seems much cleaner and simpler.

MD

 

[Popeye]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Nice rig Popeye, but why not just use two loops of bungie for the bag? Seems much cleaner and simpler.

MD

Good idea, I just already had the bag to use from my BC, and that area is right where my (real big) butt connects to the rig. A wear and tear area. The bag is difficult to fold nicely (80# Halcyon) and at times, I substitute a fold up dive flag in the same pouch (although I haven't since my BC days).

I got this Halcyon bag when they first came out, and the inflation nipple is perpendicular to the centerline of the bag. I believe the newer ones point straight down. I've been meaning to buy one.

I'll try the loops and see how it goes.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"Is there something I'm missing? Aren't lift bags generally for recovery, etc.? I'm a rec diver...the only thing I'm recovering is me."

Points are: 1. rec divers sometimes need to do recovery (for example, weightbelts). 2. light salvage is a different task than sending line to the surface using a reel of some type.

Most comments in response to your post focused on use of lift bags or surface marker buoys to send up a line for use during decompression and/or for surface signalling.

For these purposes there are many opinions as to whether closed circuit or open circuit bags are preferable. An argument can be made either way.

Should you ever want to use a lift bag for light salvage, however, as Dee mentioned previously, IMHO this can be a very different task than sending line to the surface. Even if it's simply recovering a 30 lb weightbelt or a small outboard motor, it takes some practice. Some nasty things have happened when divers tried to bring up a dropped weightbelt without a lift bag. As you concluded, some practice time will be invaluable.

Also, if you need a SMB to be closed circuit, then an LP inflator hose is necessary. Whether you want to disconnect a hose to inflate the bag is something to consider. Under perfect conditions it is rarely difficult. Under less than perfect conditions it can be more problematic. Open circuit bags can be shot by simply exhaling into them, thus eliminating either disconnecting a hose or removing the regulator from your mouth to inflate the bag. Other options occasionally require either more steps, or more hands than are sometimes available. Some divers carry both.

For light salvage you might find that open circuit bags are preferable. Depending on how large and heavy the object is that you are recovering (and how sunk into the sediment it may be), the salvage lift bag should be inflated with a hose and inflator designed for this purpose. The objective is to break any suction, get the object neutral, and maintain it neutral as you slowly ascend. Like most things, its easier said than done. As most have already noted, time spent rigging and doing practice lifts will be time well spent.

For more information see this site:

http://www.carterbag.com/home.html

Other sites on salvage of heavier objects are also interesting, but not generally applicable to rec divers.

My .02, FWIW.

Doc

 

[MechDiver]

Popeye once bubbled...

I got this Halcyon bag when they first came out, and the inflation nipple is perpendicular to the centerline of the bag. I believe the newer ones point straight down. I've been meaning to buy one.

I'll try the loops and see how it goes.

My 80# H also has the perpendicular fill spout, which helps to fold it for the loops, and is one reason why it doesn't work so well for the H backplate pouch.

I would think an inline fill would be just the opposite, which would not work out for me. I had a major time getting that bag out of the bp pouch and finally gave it up.

MD

 

[MechDiver]

Doc Intrepid once bubbled...

Should you ever want to use a lift bag for light salvage, however, as Dee mentioned previously, IMHO this can be a very different task than sending line to the surface. Even if it's simply recovering a 30 lb weightbelt or a small outboard motor, it takes some practice. Some nasty things have happened when divers tried to bring up a dropped weightbelt without a lift bag. As you concluded, some practice time will be invaluable.

For light salvage you might find that open circuit bags are preferable
Doc

Good points on doing salvage. I would only use an open end bag for that type of duty, and, if diving for that purpose, I would have a dedicated LP line with an inflator on it. Althought I would not routinely dive with one, in that particular case, they are the right tool for the job.

MD