Suunto EON Core? Where did this come from?

[tbone1004]

Increased cost compared to what? It has features most others don't have. Some features not everyone will need but they are there for the ones that will need them (GPS, Gas Blender and O2 Analyzer for example).

the increased cost over a Shearwater. In this country it's about 50% more expensive. Ratio w/ transmitter here is $1500, Perdix AI is $1150. To me that means it has to be at least $300 worth of stuff "better" than the Perdix for me to consider it.

GPS is non-functional underwater, so I guess if you're big into surface swims and need very accurate positioning to make descents it would be nifty? Nautilus Lifeline Radio displays GPS coordinates and is obviously a bit more useful as a surface rescue device

O2 analyzer is nice, but you can get them for $250 as a standalone unit, and you can get a gas blender for your smart phone for $10 or something on the app stores that is much easier to use than the Ratio. The gas analyzer "Add-on" is $300 for the Ratio, so again this falls into the "nifty" category.

It's a nice computer, and if it was cost competitive with the Shearwater, I'd consider it, but it's not.

@Kromar the reliability aside, the reason that you can't find xDeep easily in the US is because of their general attitude towards customer service in this country and it caused many dealers to drop them as a brand

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv xdeep had a TON of distribution problems in the US and a lot of dealers dropped them because they were such a terrible company to deal with...

What is/was the relationship between Ratio computers and xDeep? I am confused.

 

[tridacna]

What is/was the relationship between Ratio computers and xDeep? I am confused.

There is no relationship between the two companies AFAIK. xDeep sunk themselves by over-promising and under-delivering. Their US distributor is/was a complete joke. A pity because they had a cool product.

 

[stuartv]

There is another new computer from Poland hitting the EU market right now. Hopefully it will not repeat Xdeep story.

That computer looks pretty nice. I really like the way the compass looks. Hopefully (for them), the compass will react as quickly and smoothly as the Perdix compass.

I definitely like the button placement. Buttons on the sides, getting accidentally pressed by other stuff on my arm is one of my (very minor) gripes with my Perdix.

I was really excited at first because I thought the big silver knob on the right was a control knob. Bummer, it's just the battery compartment cap.

It's definitely a nice price. Too bad they don't have AI. I don't think I'll ever buy another computer that doesn't have AI. The Perdix AI is too good to buy something else without AI.

 

[stuartv]

the increased cost over a Shearwater. In this country it's about 50% more expensive. Ratio w/ transmitter here is $1500, Perdix AI is $1150. To me that means it has to be at least $300 worth of stuff "better" than the Perdix for me to consider it.

GPS is non-functional underwater, so I guess if you're big into surface swims and need very accurate positioning to make descents it would be nifty? Nautilus Lifeline Radio displays GPS coordinates and is obviously a bit more useful as a surface rescue device

O2 analyzer is nice, but you can get them for $250 as a standalone unit, and you can get a gas blender for your smart phone for $10 or something on the app stores that is much easier to use than the Ratio. The gas analyzer "Add-on" is $300 for the Ratio, so again this falls into the "nifty" category.

I think it would be nice if my computer had a built-in GPS, just so that it could log my coordinates along with the rest of my dive data. Meaning, log the spot where I entered the water and where I exited the water. Of course, if you rely on Auto On and don't manually turn your computer on before you splash, then you would only get the exit point logged.

That said, I use Subsurface and with the Subsurface-mobile add-on app (all of which is free), I can get the same thing. All I have to do is take my smartphone on the boat with me and turn on the Subsurface location service. The app will then log my phone's position every so often and merge the location data with my dive log data when I download from my Perdix, basing the merge on the timestamps of all the logged data. No reason I'd pay an extra $300 for the dive computer to do that for me.

For gas analyzing, I am happy to have bought a standalone O2 analyzer. I had it before any of my current computers and I'll probably still have it long after I have replaced at least one of my current computers. Spending money on an analyzer that I could only use with one specific computer (or even brand of computers) is not the way I personally would generally choose to go. And the next analyzer I buy is going to do Trimix. Hopefully with CO analysis built-in also. And probably rigged to show tank pressure at the same time, so I can do everything I need at once, with just one connection to the cylinder.

Besides all that, when it comes to AI, in MY mind, the PPS transmitter is now established as the industry standard, ubiquitous, commodity AI transmitter. It's the only one that will work with multiple different brands of computers. I got my first one with an Oceanic computer and have been using it with Oceanic, Hollis, and Shearwater computers, so far. I like AI. For me to spend money on an AI transmitter that is proprietary and only works with one brand of computer, it or the computer would have to do something REALLY special. Or be REALLY inexpensive. AND somehow convince me that it will be very reliable. I think Shearwater made a BRILLIANT move in adopting use of the PPS transmitter and new players in the dive computer market (like Ratio) really missed the boat by developing their own transmitter.

 

[tridacna]

Back to the EON Core.

I feel sorry for all those SUUNTO dealers sitting with Eon Steels on their shelves. They will make a nice boat anchor if you string them together. Selling them will be nigh impossible against the Core.

 

[tridacna]

I think Shearwater made a BRILLIANT move in adopting use of the PPS transmitter and new players in the dive computer market (like Ratio) really missed the boat by developing their own transmitter.

Ditto for SUUNTO. Remember that they have a "special" transmitter for the Steel and I presume Core too. What a dumb move.

 

[BoltSnap]

In this country it's about 50% more expensive. Ratio w/ transmitter here is $1500, Perdix AI is $1150.

50% more? How so? What calculator did you use to figure out 50%?

GPS is non-functional underwater, so I guess if you're big into surface swims and need very accurate positioning to make descents it would be nifty? Nautilus Lifeline Radio displays GPS coordinates and is obviously a bit more useful as a surface rescue device

It costs a lot less integrated with the computer and is very usable for various application as I have found it to be so far. I do NOT want to carry too many gadgets with me when I am diving as much as possible and this helps a great deal.

O2 analyzer is nice, but you can get them for $250 as a standalone unit, and you can get a gas blender for your smart phone for $10 or something on the app stores that is much easier to use than the Ratio. The gas analyzer "Add-on" is $300 for the Ratio, so again this falls into the "nifty" category.

Again, none of it is a must have just like any feature beyond a very basic computer provides but having less equipment around is a convenience.

I think it would be nice if my computer had a built-in GPS, just so that it could log my coordinates along with the rest of my dive data. Meaning, log the spot where I entered the water and where I exited the water. Of course, if you rely on Auto On and don't manually turn your computer on before you splash, then you would only get the exit point logged.

That said, I use Subsurface and with the Subsurface-mobile add-on app (all of which is free), I can get the same thing. All I have to do is take my smartphone on the boat with me and turn on the Subsurface location service. The app will then log my phone's position every so often and merge the location data with my dive log data when I download from my Perdix, basing the merge on the timestamps of all the logged data. No reason I'd pay an extra $300 for the dive computer to do that for me.

I have a mobile phone with GPS and used to use it and always worry about water splashing on the phone and ruining it. Hasn't happened to me yet but it happened to other friends. With the built in GPS, the iX3M computer does it very nicely completely wet and I don't have to worry about remembering to bring in my mobile phone while trying to dry my hand or keep it away from the water. I paid a lot more for my mobile phone and I certainly don't want to spend the money to replace it.

For gas analyzing, I am happy to have bought a standalone O2 analyzer. I had it before any of my current computers and I'll probably still have it long after I have replaced at least one of my current computers. Spending money on an analyzer that I could only use with one specific computer (or even brand of computers) is not the way I personally would generally choose to go. And the next analyzer I buy is going to do Trimix. Hopefully with CO analysis built-in also. And probably rigged to show tank pressure at the same time, so I can do everything I need at once, with just one connection to the cylinder.

It is an available option and not a requirement. I have a stand alone analyzer and I wanted a backup and this fits the need very nicely with VERY small size.

Besides all that, when it comes to AI, in MY mind, the PPS transmitter is now established as the industry standard, ubiquitous, commodity AI transmitter. It's the only one that will work with multiple different brands of computers. I got my first one with an Oceanic computer and have been using it with Oceanic, Hollis, and Shearwater computers, so far. I like AI. For me to spend money on an AI transmitter that is proprietary and only works with one brand of computer, it or the computer would have to do something REALLY special. Or be REALLY inexpensive. AND somehow convince me that it will be very reliable. I think Shearwater made a BRILLIANT move in adopting use of the PPS transmitter and new players in the dive computer market (like Ratio) really missed the boat by developing their own transmitter.

I don't think that it is an "industry standard" at all, several other vendors use different brand/make transmitters and are very successful with it thus far. I won't and don't trust that AL will continue the honeymoon with Oceanic for long and only God knows about Shearwater. I believe that Ratio did the right/smart thing by developing their own product in this specific area.

 

[tbone1004]

@BurhanMuntasser
30% on MAP, about 50% if you ask the right dealer
The point that I was making that for about $300 more, you can get
Perdix AI with transmitter which is a better computer
a dedicated O2 analyzer which is easier to use and is the same "number" of gadgets because you have to bring the extra analyzer adapter with you
Nautilus lifeline which is more useful as an emergency GPS transmitter if you get lost since it can call for help

On the PPS transmitter side, something tells me that that transmitter isn't going away anytime soon with PPS being sold to Aqualung

 

[stuartv]

50% more? How so? What calculator did you use to figure out 50%?

The part you quoted said $1150 for Perdix + transmitter versus $1500 for iX3M + transmitter. It's not really 50% more. That's just a very rough ballpark number. It's actually 30% more.

I have a mobile phone with GPS and used to use it and always worry about water splashing on the phone and ruining it. Hasn't happened to me yet but it happened to other friends. With the built in GPS, the iX3M computer does it very nicely completely wet and I don't have to worry about remembering to bring in my mobile phone while trying to dry my hand or keep it away from the water. I paid a lot more for my mobile phone and I certainly don't want to spend the money to replace it.

My phone is waterproof (against only splashes or drop in a puddle, of course). And I keep it along with my electronic key fob for my truck in a drybag on the boat. No need to take it out at all while on the boat, for the Subsurface location service to work.

Ditto for SUUNTO. Remember that they have a "special" transmitter for the Steel and I presume Core too. What a dumb move.

I don't think that it is an "industry standard" at all, several other vendors use different brand/make transmitters and are very successful with it thus far. I won't and don't trust that AL will continue the honeymoon with Oceanic for long and only God knows about Shearwater. I believe that Ratio did the right/smart thing by developing their own product in this specific area.

At least Suunto and ScubaPro have a history with AI. They have a track record that people can look at to decide if they want to trust their AI transmitters.

Shearwater's deal gave them AI with a history (of pretty solid reliability) with the stroke of a pen. Brilliant.

Ratio does not have any of that. Investing in Ratio AI is somewhat of a gamble until their AI has been around long enough, and used by enough people, to really show whether their AI is as reliable as their competition's. And also to show how well (or poorly) they will take care of the customers who do have issues. EVERY company has customers that have issues. How the company handles it is an important part of the buying decision to many people. Shearwater has proven time and again that they take very good care of their customers. So far, from other posts here on SB, I would have to say that Ratio has not yet proven themselves to be so committed to taking care of their customers. The jury is still out.

You don't have to consider the PPS transmitter to be an industry standard if you don't want to. But, like I said, it is the ONLY AI transmitter that I know of that can be used by multiple different brands of computer. Aeris, Oceanic, Hollis, Aqualung, Sherwood, Tusa, and Shearwater. ScubaPro AI? 1 brand. Suunto AI? 1 brand (that recently issued a recall on ALL the AI transmitters they have ever made). Ratio AI? 1 brand (with a pretty short history, so far, to be able to judge them on). Liquivision AI? 1 brand.

I think Buhlmann ZHL-16C w/Gradient Factors algorithm is supported on less computers than the PPS transmitter is, and I would call it an industry standard algorithm.

Obviously, just because you say something is an industry standard does not mean you are saying that EVERYONE in the industry supports it.

Of course, if something happens and Shearwater or Oceanic somehow loses the ability to sell their computers with compatibility with the PPS transmitters, then I will just have to eat my words!