Swimming Ability

[Divin'Papaw]

I have always had a theory that weak swimmers usually make better divers than strong swimmers.

Don't tell the DIR forum.

Good swimmers certainly do have to get used to not using their hands/arms, but I don't at all agree with your theory. IMO good swimmers are far more comfortable in the water and therefore make safer, more relaxed, more competent divers. There are always exceptions, but as a whole, my theory is that solid swimmers make better divers.

 

[vladimir]

I have always had a theory that weak swimmers usually make better divers than strong swimmers.

I guess they'd appreciate the tank a lot more.

 

[vladimir]

IMO good swimmers are far more comfortable in the water and therefore make safer, more relaxed, more competent divers. There are always exceptions, but as a whole, my theory is the solid swimmers make better divers.

Of course you are correct. And the flip side is, if you are comfortable in the water there is usually no impediment to becoming a capable swimmer.

 

[Atomic_Diver]

long time ago during open water pool training each day my instructor(s) made us do 60 laps each back and fourth in a pool...but it was nothing, the pool was only like 30 feet long if that, but back then i was 5' 7" and 220 lbs, right now i am 5' 10" and 155 lbs so it would be nothing to do it again...in fact whats really funny is when i go solo diving a mile or 2 off the beach, and my dad is stuck on the boat for 2 1/2 - 3 hours while i swim around aimlessley, towing my float, in 10-15' of water...thats what i do to cool off when i feel like i am drying out

 

[Kingpatzer]

What level of swimming ability (unassisted, non-timed) did you possess before taking-up SCUBA diving?

1. Non-swimmer or less than 100 meters (less than 4 lengths)

2. 100 to 200 meters (4 to 8 lengths of a 25 meter pool)

3. 200 to 300 meters (8 to 16 lengths)

4. 300 to 400 meters (16 to 20 lengths)

5. Over 400 meters (over 20 lengths)

Just to be a pedantic ass, I keep seeing you refer to swimming distances in terms of lengths. Are you aware that pools come in different lengths? Most pools around the USA seem to be of the 25 yard variety. Even in meters, 400 meters is 16 lengths, 20 would be 500. But since they're yards, that would be about 17.5 lengths.

My local swimming pool is an Olympic size pool, meaning it is 51 meters in length.

My local PADI shop has a small pool that is 18 yards long. 400 yards in that pool is just a tad more than 22 laps (though they use 22 as the count).

Now, to answer the question:

I was a swimmer most of my life. I even placed in several state events in high school, and have done equally well in master's programs. I'm well into the more than 400 category.

But that said, I have a real problem with the swimming requirements for the agencies I am aware of. They measure the ability of a person to swim in a calm pool, with turns on each end, without a time limit.

If the purpose of swimming is to measure how a person might do in getting back to a boat in swells or current while at sea, the tests are entirely inadequate to that purpose. If they are to measure how "comfortable" a person is in the water, they are equally ludicrous. Comfort in the water has little to do with swimming ability as it relates to scuba diving. I know more than a few people who are barely capable of finishing a 400 yard swim (if they could at all) who are perfectly comfortable in scuba and snorkling gear in any conditions.

 

[DCBC]

Just to be a pedantic ass, I keep seeing you refer to swimming distances in terms of lengths. Are you aware that pools come in different lengths?

Yes; are you aware that I specified a pool length of 25 meters in the question?

If the purpose of swimming is to measure how a person might do in getting back to a boat in swells or current while at sea, the tests are entirely inadequate to that purpose. If they are to measure how "comfortable" a person is in the water, they are equally ludicrous. Comfort in the water has little to do with swimming ability as it relates to scuba diving. I know more than a few people who are barely capable of finishing a 400 yard swim (if they could at all) who are perfectly comfortable in scuba and snorkling gear in any conditions.

Yes; when trained as a navy diver I had a timed 5 mile swim in 40 degree water with 3 foot waves. It satisfied the Navy that we were reasonably strong in an aquatic environment. Although we are teaching recreational students, many divers dive in the ocean and the ocean has taught me that it does not always act in a predictable way.

Although we disagree about this issue, we are each entitled to our opinions. The purpose of this question (and others that I have posted on the Instructor to Instructor area) is to solicit the opinion of others, so as to better understand the thoughts and in this case, capability of SB members. I felt that any majority opinion would be helpful and could guide the direction of your Wiki 'SB SCUBA Program."

 

[Kingpatzer]

Yes; are you aware that I specified a pool length of 25 meters in the question?

Since you referenced 400 meters as 20 lengths, I wasn't sure what you were talking about

And it is really purely about opinion. The standards of each agency are what they are, and it really doesn't matter what I think -- and I'm ok with that. My wife has taught me to accept being ignored

 

[DCBC]

Since you referenced 400 meters as 20 lengths, I wasn't sure what you were talking about

Perhaps you should read what is posted more closely.

The standards of each agency are what they are, and it really doesn't matter what I think -- and I'm ok with that. My wife has taught me to accept being ignored

If all you're interested in is the standards of each agency, why did you bother to set-up the Wiki? You made a posting that was something positive as far as I was concerned, and then you find fault with others that try to further the cause. If you didn't want people's input, why post the question? If the majority of people disagree with you, so be it. You can either accept it or not; that's your call. That doesn't erase what people are saying.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Perhaps you should read what is posted more closely.

A problem with reading posts/threads quickly between phone calls and down time at work is that cursory reads do tend to miss things that are often important. However, though I confess to missing your specification of length, even specifying a particular length if the following information doesn't line up, it is a fair question as to what is being specifically said.

If all you're interested in is the standards of each agency, why did you bother to set-up the Wiki? You made a posting that was something positive as far as I was concerned, and then you find fault with others that try to further the cause. If you didn't want people's input, why post the question? If the majority of people disagree with you, so be it. You can either accept it or not; that's your call. That doesn't erase what people are saying.

I'm not trying to find fault or to otherwise disparage another's opinion. Nor am I merely interested in what the standards say. My point is that the swimming standards across agencies are something I simply don't understand in either their structure or intent.

If they're for testing ability as it relates to common diving situations where swimming ability will be critical - they fail. IF they are for testing how comfortable someone is in the water, they also fail in my view. I've seen people who are seriously uncomfortable in the water be able to complete the swimming standards, albeit with difficulty. I've seen people who are very comfortable in the water, but have limited swimming ability, fail a first attempt at the swim.

Disagreeing with the premise that a particular aspect of a larger conversation can or will be useful isn't finding fault.

Oh, and as to the wiki -- due to a rather unfortunate financial reality hitting a bit too close to home, the web site is down at least for a bit.

 

[TMHeimer]

Kingpatzer, I agree with you completely about swimming having little to do with being comfortable in scuba gear. I haven't swam for real since H.S. 40 years ago. I will be probably exercising and training all winter to be able to just complete the 400 meter DM requirement, yet I did OK with the 800 meter swim with fins, mask snorkel. I am getting all sorts of good advice on improving my stroke--it's all about swim technique and arm strength ( you don't use the arms while diving. of course). Can't think of any scenario where I would elect to put on the fins to rescue someone--in fact that is one of the first things you learn in the Rescue course. But it's up to me to figure it all out.