Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[Tug]

If you're going to post a sign that cites to the CFR, maybe you should consider reading the CFR itself. In this case, the only screening authorized is

Security measures for access control.

Security measures for access control.

In general, though, here's something to keep in mind: posting a sign that says "By doing X, you consent to Y" doesn't do jack squat in terms of giving you authority to do Y just because someone did X. Either there's law giving you that authority under those circumstances or there isn't. Notice (i.e., a sign) may be relevant to the analysis, but posting a sign isn't necessarily like putting a contract out there for people to sign.

As I don't work on a dive boat or have numbers to a secret wreck I don't have a dog in this fight. I was posting the signs as an example of something that the captain could use as an excuse to search a bag.


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[redacted]

Nope, aboard my vessel (commercial) I have full rights to search bags according to the vessel security plan.


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What gives you that right? Do you require your passengers to agree to that right before you accept them?

 

[manni-yunk]

If you're going to post a sign that cites to the CFR, maybe you should consider reading the CFR itself. In this case, the only screening authorized is

Security measures for access control.

Security measures for access control.

In general, though, here's something to keep in mind: posting a sign that says "By doing X, you consent to Y" doesn't do jack squat in terms of giving you authority to do Y just because someone did X. Either there's law giving you that authority under those circumstances or there isn't. Notice (i.e., a sign) may be relevant to the analysis, but posting a sign isn't necessarily like putting a contract out there for people to sign.

Nice attempt at a misdirect - but....


If the sign and vessles security plan grants a captain the right to search for dangerous elements - AND - in that search - he also uncovers a GPS that was also prohibited per the rules of that specific vessel - he will take and hold the GPS.... and I would bet that no one in law enforcement will EVER do anything to him.......

---------- Post added January 15th, 2013 at 07:32 PM ----------

I love how you guys have twisted this form a "ethics and etiquite" conversation to a legality of the situation conversation......


unreal......



Just ask the Captain if you are allowed to use a handheld GPS and listed to his/her wishes and NONE of this would matter. Courtesy, respect, and common sense seem to be disappearing from society at an alarming pace......

 

[Tug]

What gives you that right? Do you require your passengers to agree to that right before you accept them?

See above, I don't work on a dive boat. I work on a commercial vessel.


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[Dr. Lecter]

Nice attempt at a misdirect - but....


If the sign and vessles security plan grants a captain the right to search for dangerous elements - AND - in that search - he also uncovers a GPS that was also prohibited per the rules of that specific vessel - he will take and hold the GPS.... and I would bet that no one in law enforcement will EVER do anything to him.......

You're confused about what "the rules of that specific vessel" do (and don't) empower a private person (including its captain) to do with respect to the personal property of others (even those paying for a charter and agreeing to a contract containing said rules). But you're probably right that the average LEO would find this topic about as important as I do

 

[manni-yunk]

You're confused about what "the rules of that specific vessel" do (and don't) empower a private person (including its captain) to do with respect to the personal property of others (even those paying for a charter and agreeing to a contract containing said rules). But you're probably right that the average LEO would find this topic about as important as I do

After reading and participating in this thread for as long as I have......Id say Im confused about a lot of things!!!!!!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Just ask the Captain if you are allowed to use a handheld GPS and listed to his/her wishes and NONE of this would matter. Courtesy, respect, and common sense seem to be disappearing from society at an alarming pace......

Agreed. I think the common sense is quickly being leached from people's brains by the internet. I am a firm believer that many of the dumbass things that people say on the web are far from what they would say in person (and I do not just mean the performance of acting tough either). The web allows people to dump words from their fingers faster than they can actually think in many cases,

 

[Reck Diver]

Here is an paragraph from a recent article:

“...When you go on a cruise ship, you are in the territory of the flag of the country the ship is registered in,” said Miami-based maritime attorney Michael Winkleman of Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman. “But where you have a possible criminal case, different types of intervening jurisdictions can apply — the Coast Guard, the FBI — although the only real authority on the ship is the cruise line itself.”...

And those tickets/contracts do give cruise lines the authority to search guests and their belongings, confiscate prohibited items and deny boarding or reboarding to passengers who refuse to comply.As the Carnival contract states, “All Guests agree Carnival has, at all times with or without notice, the right to enter and search Guest's stateroom, personal safe or storage spaces, or to search or screen any Guest, and/or personal effects, at any location, to ensure compliance with any of the restrictions set forth in this agreement.”

U.S. passengers are protected by U.S. laws but also subject to international maritime laws and the legally-binding contracts of their passenger tickets.



Comments Counselors?

 

[redacted]

Here is an paragraph from a recent article:

“...When you go on a cruise ship, you are in the territory of the flag of the country the ship is registered in,” said Miami-based maritime attorney Michael Winkleman of Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman. “But where you have a possible criminal case, different types of intervening jurisdictions can apply — the Coast Guard, the FBI — although the only real authority on the ship is the cruise line itself.”...

And those tickets/contracts do give cruise lines the authority to search guests and their belongings, confiscate prohibited items and deny boarding or reboarding to passengers who refuse to comply.As the Carnival contract states, “All Guests agree Carnival has, at all times with or without notice, the right to enter and search Guest's stateroom, personal safe or storage spaces, or to search or screen any Guest, and/or personal effects, at any location, to ensure compliance with any of the restrictions set forth in this agreement.”

Comments Counselors?

Up front and in writing as part of the contract. How does your contract read?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Here is an paragraph from a recent article:

“...When you go on a cruise ship, you are in the territory of the flag of the country the ship is registered in,” said Miami-based maritime attorney Michael Winkleman of Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman. “But where you have a possible criminal case, different types of intervening jurisdictions can apply — the Coast Guard, the FBI — although the only real authority on the ship is the cruise line itself.”...

And those tickets/contracts do give cruise lines the authority to search guests and their belongings, confiscate prohibited items and deny boarding or reboarding to passengers who refuse to comply.As the Carnival contract states, “All Guests agree Carnival has, at all times with or without notice, the right to enter and search Guest's stateroom, personal safe or storage spaces, or to search or screen any Guest, and/or personal effects, at any location, to ensure compliance with any of the restrictions set forth in this agreement.”

Comments Counselors?

Guess what? Canival's contract remedy when I tell them to off if they want to search or screen myself or my personal effects -- thereby breaching a contract -- isn't to grab me and forcibly search my belongings. They can tell me the contract is void and do whatever their obligations as a common carrier require them to do to put me off the ship. I suppose they could sue me for breach, though contract damages seem non-existent for them. You really just don't get contract law, do you?