Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[vondo]

Turns out, they think that the safety record of US flagged dive boats sucks, and that's the main reason they think so. I'm not putting words in Reckdivers mouth, I don't know if he thinks he is a taxi driver or not, but am responding directly to KWS post above. The Coast Guard has recently promulgated an advisory to dive operations regarding recreational dive vessels and how they conduct business. The era of the Taxi Driver and the complete disregard for what happens to the diver once they get off the boat is long over. The diver may be responsible for his or her actions underwater, but the Captain is now responsible to give proper briefings before boarding, before diving, and between dive sites.

Do you have a link to this advisory? I'd be interested in seeing it (for reasons totally unrelated to the subject of this thread).

 

[Wookie]

Do you have a link to this advisory? I'd be interested in seeing it (for reasons totally unrelated to the subject of this thread).

If this doesn't work, google USCG Homeport, look about halfway down the right side for "Most Current, and click on dive advisory....

https://homeport.uscg.mil/mycg/port...BV_EngineID=ccceadfijdliemkcfngcfkmdfhfdfgl.0

 

[rjack321]

Wookie,
At least in this state if you operate a commercial charter you agree to be search by fish and game (among others). This is stipulated on your state permit to actually operate a commercial fishing charter leaving and returning from Washington ports. All of our divable water's are state waters, so you remain under state jurisdiction - so you can't tell local law enforcement to "eff off" and that you'll only deal with the Coast Guard. The Sheriff's marine patrol(s) and city's with marine or harbor patrol units most definitely have jurisdiction aboard all the local dive vessels. We have thousands of documented vessels in this state (many commercial, many inspected) and just having a licensed master aboard does not give any of them the right to refuse compliance with local authorities. Our charters (what few remain after the economic crash) are operating exclusively in state waters on coastwise voyages only. I doubt any of them are remotely SOLAS compliant or in any way prepared to be a floating "state". Nevermind that I can't think of a single dive wreck outside even the 3 mile limit. Three miles out is like 600+ft deep.

We used to have one international charter operating between both the US and Canada, but he moved his boat (Nautilus Explorer) to the Socorros. That would be the only dive vessel in recent memory I can think of potentially able to successfully claim he was operating outside of local authority. There are foreign flagged crusie ships departing from Seattle for AK, but these are obviously not dive (or fishing) charters. But they also aren't searching passengers for GPS's.

Only a fool for a fishing or dive charter skipper here would try to excercise bodily search authority even for contraband. Deny boarding if you're at the dock, or radio ahead for LEOs to meet you someplace if underway. Even if you were "in the right", the court of public opinion would crucify you for the perception of inappropriate contact just like they do for TSA pat downs of grandmas and 3yos. Besides, after 10 years of "medicinal" use, recreational pot is legal in Washington now lol.

 

[dadediver]

Wookie,
At least in this state if you operate a commercial charter you agree to be search by fish and game (among others). This is stipulated on your state permit to actually operate a commercial fishing charter leaving and returning from Washington ports. All of our divable water's are state waters, so you remain under state jurisdiction - so you can't tell local law enforcement to "eff off" and that you'll only deal with the Coast Guard. The Sheriff's marine patrol(s) and city's with marine or harbor patrol units most definitely have jurisdiction aboard all the local dive vessels. We have thousands of documented vessels in this state (many commercial, many inspected) and just having a licensed master aboard does not give any of them the right to refuse compliance with local authorities. Our charters (what few remain after the economic crash) are operating exclusively in state waters on coastwise voyages only. I doubt any of them are remotely SOLAS compliant or in any way prepared to be a floating "state". Nevermind that I can't think of a single dive wreck outside even the 3 mile limit. Three miles out is like 600+ft deep.

We used to have one international charter operating between both the US and Canada, but he moved his boat (Nautilus Explorer) to the Socorros. That would be the only dive vessel in recent memory I can think of potentially able to successfully claim he was operating outside of local authority. There are foreign flagged crusie ships departing from Seattle for AK, but these are obviously not dive (or fishing) charters. But they also aren't searching passengers for GPS's.

Only a fool for a fishing or dive charter skipper here would try to excercise bodily search authority even for contraband. Deny boarding if you're at the dock, or radio ahead for LEOs to meet you someplace if underway. Even if you were "in the right", the court of public opinion would crucify you for the perception of inappropriate contact just like they do for TSA pat downs of grandmas and 3yos. Besides, after 10 years of "medicinal" use, recreational pot is legal in Washington now lol.

I have three kids serving active USCG. Each district is different. In D13 (your area) there is a strong working relationship with the local LEO and the USCG B.O.'s. If a USCG 25' defender comes upon a BUI, they blue light them and call the local LEO for they can officially BAT the offenders make the arrrest for that boosts the local LEO BUI numbers. The same goes for the D-9 which is the Great Lakes. However, if my other son who is over in PATFORSWA (middle east) will definately handle a GPS on a Pungo a little differently than one of the boys in D-9. I did ask one of my sons if they ever recieved a call about a Captain confiscating a GPS and he actually did have a instance. He said that the boat Captain did return the GPS after he cleared the way points and there was nothing the USCG could really do about. The charter Captain in question did have NO GPS posted on his web site and on his waivers. Keep in mind that the local Captains try to keep a friendly rapore with the local LEO's and B.O.'s.

 

[Wookie]

Wookie,
At least in this state if you operate a commercial charter you agree to be search by fish and game (among others). This is stipulated on your state permit to actually operate a commercial fishing charter leaving and returning from Washington ports. All of our divable water's are state waters, so you remain under state jurisdiction - so you can't tell local law enforcement to "eff off" and that you'll only deal with the Coast Guard. The Sheriff's marine patrol(s) and city's with marine or harbor patrol units most definitely have jurisdiction aboard all the local dive vessels. We have thousands of documented vessels in this state (many commercial, many inspected) and just having a licensed master aboard does not give any of them the right to refuse compliance with local authorities. Our charters (what few remain after the economic crash) are operating exclusively in state waters on coastwise voyages only. I doubt any of them are remotely SOLAS compliant or in any way prepared to be a floating "state". Nevermind that I can't think of a single dive wreck outside even the 3 mile limit. Three miles out is like 600+ft deep.

We used to have one international charter operating between both the US and Canada, but he moved his boat (Nautilus Explorer) to the Socorros. That would be the only dive vessel in recent memory I can think of potentially able to successfully claim he was operating outside of local authority. There are foreign flagged crusie ships departing from Seattle for AK, but these are obviously not dive (or fishing) charters. But they also aren't searching passengers for GPS's.

Only a fool for a fishing or dive charter skipper here would try to excercise bodily search authority even for contraband. Deny boarding if you're at the dock, or radio ahead for LEOs to meet you someplace if underway. Even if you were "in the right", the court of public opinion would crucify you for the perception of inappropriate contact just like they do for TSA pat downs of grandmas and 3yos. Besides, after 10 years of "medicinal" use, recreational pot is legal in Washington now lol.

Gosh, please don't think I'm advocating telling LE to take a hike. I'm not or never have done so. I would ask politely if a non-marine LE asked to board if they wouldn't mind waiting for the Coast Guard or FWC. If they got their chest puffed out when I asked, they would certainly be welcome onboard.

 

[rjack321]

Keep in mind that the local Captains try to keep a friendly rapore with the local LEO's and B.O.'s.

You'd be a fool not to, if you wanted to operate without repeat/occurring hassles and "gotcha" moments.

Gosh, please don't think I'm advocating telling LE to take a hike. I'm not or never have done so. I would ask politely if a non-marine LE asked to board if they wouldn't mind waiting for the Coast Guard or FWC. If they got their chest puffed out when I asked, they would certainly be welcome onboard.

Yeah I know, I was just adding to the discussion which is not so black and white. There's jurisdictional overlap, particularly in state waters and for small vessels who might not even be inspected.

 

[vondo]

If this doesn't work, google USCG Homeport, look about halfway down the right side for "Most Current, and click on dive advisory....

https://homeport.uscg.mil/mycg/port...BV_EngineID=ccceadfijdliemkcfngcfkmdfhfdfgl.0

Thanks. All common sense, but nice to know these things are on the radar of the USCG.

 

[Slowrise]

All this talk about secret coordinates, threats, contracts, confusing jurisdictions and so on make me think that there's surely a Grisham-type novel in this somewhere, about a young idealistic lawyer returning to the south to work for a somewhat down-at-heel local law firm (maybe his mother is ill, maybe he got fired for not being willing to set his principles aside working for some major law firm). For his first assignment he gets to represent a charter boat captain who is on trial for after coming to blows with a punter over a gps unit. The captain is of course an old friend of the semi-alcoholic lawyer whom the protagonist works for. It turns out that a lot more serious things than gpses have been thrown overboard over wreck and fishing numbers... Not sure if the captain is the hero or the villain at this point. Oh, the young lawyer gets involved with an school sweetheart but there are complications (if the captain is the villain, the love interest is a coast guard skipper, for instance?) Also dark secrets about the idyllic port town comes to light.


Look for "The Numbers," soon to be a major motion picture.

 

[ScubaSteve]

All this talk about secret coordinates, threats, contracts, confusing jurisdictions and so on make me think that there's surely a Grisham-type novel in this somewhere, about a young idealistic lawyer returning to the south to work for a somewhat down-at-heel local law firm (maybe his mother is ill, maybe he got fired for not being willing to set his principles aside working for some major law firm). For his first assignment he gets to represent a charter boat captain who is on trial for after coming to blows with a punter over a gps unit. The captain is of course an old friend of the semi-alcoholic lawyer whom the protagonist works for. It turns out that a lot more serious things than gpses have been thrown overboard over wreck and fishing numbers... Not sure if the captain is the hero or the villain at this point. Oh, the young lawyer gets involved with an school sweetheart but there are complications (if the captain is the villain, the love interest is a coast guard skipper, for instance?) Also dark secrets about the idyllic port town comes to light.


Look for "The Numbers," soon to be a major motion picture.

Nope.....you are reading the next installment of Dirk Pitt's adventures with NUMA

 

[iluvtheocean]

thank you to Frank and dadediver for the information from the Captain's & CG's perspective.


common sense is severely lacking nowadays - especially in some of today's children. I've seen elementary school children plagiarizing websites and then passing them it off as their own work (the instances i'm using was in regards to some poems and needless to say those particular students received an "F") -- and more than one used the same website & poem and didn't think it was wrong at all - we found the website and original poem by an easy Google search. So they are going to end up being the ones scamming the GPS co-ordinates when they are told they are not supposed to.

And I'll say this again -- a new site to dive is great but repeat business is generated by the positive experience the passenger has had. A good experience will have someone willing to return and will recommend you to a friend. A bad one whether it be a conflict over GPS etiquette or something else - people tend to tell everybody and anybody they can. Eventually for one reason or another all the dive spots will be available to all and it will still come down to customer service. I agree you ARE NOT taxi drivers nor ferry boats. We are paying for the experience of the ride itself as well as the actual dive. Frank is a perfect example of this. You can get to many of the dive sites he goes to in the keys with your own boat but you won't get the fabulous experience you would with Frank. (I haven't been on it yet but hopefully planning for sometime later this year or next year)