Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[Scuba-dan]

Well they do now! Thanks a whole frig of a lot for bursting that out for the public to see . I was just about to release a ring of sneaky divers to steal the super secret dive sites through the process of manipulated still image taking on the boats. And you ruined it.

Oops...Sorry !!!

 

[iluvtheocean]

Funny you shold mention that because I think they realize when you make the players sign such agreements ,that can get very extensive, it is bad for PR. They make up for it in the design of things like mim and max bet limits to insure the house advantage. That house advantage more than adaquately covers the loss from card counters. The casino example that would apply here is to make a big win at an indian casino and they refuse to pay off because,,,,, they are indians and it is thier casino and they have ultimate authority to designate any machine as broke at any time, there for negating the jackpot winning. Now do they tell you that when you walk in. Heck no they dont. That would stop thier cash flow. "The withholding of such ilicit gambling payoff practices is the key to our occupation and ability to make a living" Anyone heard that before. The only difference in indian casinos and the sea captains assumed rights is that the casino does not have to transit through others area of authority. Untill the casino leaves The reservation its governance is by the indian nations and not the gaming commisions. And are generally protected from federal and local regulation. Vegas or Atlantic city could never get away with the antics the indian reservations are allowed to engage in. So yes they have the trump card when it comes to setting the rules. But imagine when the casino pushes thier ultimate authority to include nightly masacres at sunset on the prarrie patio. Someone woud suggest that things have gone too far. The casino will say you were told when you entered. and the customer says I thought it was an enactment not a real masacre. They will say you should have read the agreement more closely and thank you for your cash , now time for paleface to go home, good by.

The Seminoles are currently in trouble with the IRS --- the money received by the the tribe as a whole is not taxable --- but when they distribute it to individual members it is subject to federal income tax and they haven't been paying as a whole. It is as a whole just as murky legally yes as maritime law.

 

[Nemrod]

Once the technology was released from Pandora's Box there is no stopping it. Watches, phones, cameras all have GPS and some record the entire track and broadcast the whereabouts to a mates (wife, SO etc.) other device. The signals are broadcast, the public paid for it, sorry, I will not go out of my way to pirate a secret number but I am not going out of my way to not have my devices record the numbers either. N

 

[CT-Rich]

As far as maritime law goes*, it is not just the flag of the boat (Ships often flag under different nationalities to circumvent the restrictions on safety and maintainance, labor and insurance), but also the nationality of the crew. try doing something to a US citizen in international waters and see what happens(you can check with the PLO, they have some experience with pissing off the US)... Same is true for most nations. Also, a ship sailing under a non-US flag cannot sail between US ports. that is why they will often make stops in places like Bermuda.

As far as I know, most divers that find a virgin wreck will keep it to themselves for as long as possible. They may invite selected guests on dives, with the understanding that this site is to remain on the down low. If a Captain requests that no co-ordinates be taken, I would expect divers on the boat to respect that. I have also seen other boats come in to grab coordinates when they see an anchored boats with divers in the water. This is how fishermen steal spots. You can't keep a good secret forever, but as a guest on a man's (or woman's) boat you should respect their wishes, especially if it is related to their livelyhood.

*I am not versed in maritime law and reserve the right to be wholey in wrong in any of the above statements. This is based ENTIRELY on stuff I picked up over the years and my layman understanding of law. Feel free to flame and correctme as neccessary.

 

[ptscuba]

It is bad etiquette -

You may not be aware that we spend time and money finding these sites for our guests and we pay for the privilege of using them....for the sites GPS to then be taken and used by private boats is just not right.....

 

[scubajohn87]

Our captains locally (NJ) do not want you locking in GPS coordinates when on their boat. They view it as that is their business/income, they put the time and effort in to find/get to the wreck and that is it. Information is out there, it is up to you to put the time in, find the coordinates, get in your boat and actually find and tie into the wreck/site.

agree!

I run a boat and I make it understood that there is no personal GPS units allowed on my boat. The numbers that i have found came from hours and hours of trolling and reading bottom scans. It also cost lots of money to find my own numbers, thousands of $$$ in gas. If someone snuck one onboard, i would feel like they are stealing from me. However, your situation was different. You was not trying to sneak anything. I have had alot of guys try to steal my numbers. I ask them to delete them and normally have no problem. There has been a few argue with me, they just dont get to come back.. Now if some asks me for numbers, that is a different story. I will try to hook them up... Published spots, ill point them out to you on a map... and if i feel like the person isnt gonna clean out my spot ill give them a private number...Its normally like this for guys who spearfish a lot. we dont want all the fish to get all shot out.... Most of the time I hit my spots only once per year. I dont want to overfish my spots or other people killing it up. either..

Given the abundance of GPS-enabled multifunction devices… good luck with that. It’s one thing if they request that you do not record it, which would then be a breach of trust.

Right... if you take a pic with your iphone you can get an app to pull the numbers off of it... I was watching some guys do that on pics of facebook. They where looking at pics on FB of people holding their fish over the dive spot they shot it on and running them through an app pulling their numbers... I dont like it.. but what can you do...If people want it, they will get it some how

 

[fjpatrum]

It is bad etiquette -

You may not be aware that we spend time and money finding these sites for our guests and we pay for the privilege of using them....for the sites GPS to then be taken and used by private boats is just not right.....

That makes a big assumption that someone is trying to use the numbers for private boats. I don't personally know anyone with a private boat (that I would dive from) and I like seeing my location on my dive log in macdive. Nothing more to it than that.

I don't personally have anything that records GPS location, but if I did I wouldn't be using it to come back to the site "on the cheap". I'd sooner hire a good dive boat again. If you don't consider yourself a good dive boat then we would obviously have some form of problem. I haven't really been on a "bad" dive boat, yet. I figure if I get home safely and no one has really tried to screw me out of money or something, then it was a good day diving. The last boat I was on I spent the whole time puking but it was still a good day diving.

 

[Wingy]

Funny Thread.


First of all - Google earth...Really? To find a dive site?
.




BUT - It is common courtesy and etiquite to ASK the captains permission to bring a GPS of any kind.


Ive had several guys ask me - and I always say yes. If I caught someone doing it without asking - I would be mad.

Wow you guys certainly do things differently.....ever heard of wannadive? google earths dive forum......

Blue hole - Diving in Dahab, Egypt - Wannadive.net - World dive site atlas

http://www.wannadive.net/spot/North...x.html?wdaction=lib.WDPageSpot.showGPShistory

Just out of curiosity I threw this question at a couple of master mariners who are international bluewater captains so understand ILOTS - their answer was.....so these dive boats own the satellites do they?

I had tourists onboard yesterday who were looking at the sounder and asked if the spot we were over had any good fishing.....my answer? - not sure, grab your phone and log the GPS co-ordinates or if your phone doesnt have satnav/gps/navcon etc I will give them to you. I havent read the entirity of this thread but to me it sounds way OTT. So a diveboat has someone sneakily grab their phone and punch in the co ordinates of a site they are diving on a charter boat....how much money are you going to lose assuming that each diver who does that has a boat fully equipped for diving? every diver onboard has a boat???? thats a pretty big assumption to make. Sounds a bit paranoid to me. JMO.

If a spot is so secret, why are you taking divers out there on charter??

 

[captain]

Today a lot of information is available about dive site locations online both from private and public sites. The only case I can justify a boat not allowing a customer place marking a site is if the sight is known only to that particular boat or the sight has been constructed by that particular boat. It is common practice for charter boats both fishing and diving to construct artificial reefs to bring customers to. Before GPS was common boat captains had the advantage of being the only ones with knowledge and equipment to find their way back to a particular site, those days are long gone and they have to accept it. Plus how many average divers can take advantage of such information unless the have a boat or a friend who does capable of returning to the site.
In the OP's case unless he is a resident of St Thomas and owns a boat the information is pretty useless to him other than in logging the dive.
I have been on both side as a private boat owner and a charter boat owner running trips to the GOM oil rigs, no gps needed, the rig are visible, but divers chartered me because they had on other way to get to them.

 

[Wingy]

Its an interesting question. From what I can understand no one owns any numbers. For any boat to attempt to keep a spot secret they would have to be operating without their AIS call sign on which pinpoints track and all vessel ID (I checked the a few of the boats advertised on here) down to within 6 minutes from where I am in Aus.
Because this info is available to the public using the right website you could potentially track a vessel and see where and when it stops (historical data is also stored so repeated visits to one area would be a dead giveaway) thus quite easily finding their sweet spot.
A charter boat operating with paying passengers onboard without an AIS call sign would make me raise an eyebrow.