tank position - loop bungee vs ring?

[stuartv]

I think I have read some posts in this forum before that implied (or maybe flat out stated) that you don't get the same tank positioning when using ring bungees versus using a loop bungee.

Is that correct? If so, why? What is the difference in tank position?

Is it something to do with the twisting force that the loop bungee puts on the tank valve versus no twisting force when using a ring?

It seems like if the leash (from the ring in the ring bungee that goes forward to a chest ring or shoulder strap) is long enough, it would let the tank ride just as far back or high as when using a loop bungee. I.e. it seems like you could get the same tank position, but I haven't tried it, so maybe I'm not "getting" something about this. Wouldn't be the first (or last) time!

If I need to be more specific, then I'll specify steel tanks. And a rig like an xDeep Stealth or Apeks WSX.

 

[tbone1004]

1. they are usually different. On loops you are hooking into the post or valve knob. On a ring, you are using a bolt snap that is about an inch or so up from the valve, then a 2" diameter O-ring to clip into, then the loop. It is possible to get the same position as long as the loop is 3" higher. You usually have some a-framing action going on when it is that high as well as limited stretch due to the bungee being fairly short. One of the big issues that Dive Rite had was Lamar told people to adjust the rings in the wrong direction. He said that when you needed to adjust the length of the bungees you adjusted from the backplate side which kept the front of the tanks in a fixed position in relation to your front d-rings. The original ring bungees only had a bolt snap, quick link, then ring so it was only possible to have the tanks as high as that ring was allowed to go when restricted by the bolt snap and quick link. If you replace the quick link with paracord or line or whatever to extend it, then you can put the tank higher up.

2. no, the twisting force is nice for keeping the bottom in control though. The position is strictly to how high the ring can sit when attached to the chest d-rings.

3. correct, that is how it works, though unless you have a really big chest, you will either not have any stretch due to the bungee being so short, or you will a-frame as the bungee is pulling more in than up which causes the tank bottoms to kick out

I ran rings for a while. I find neck leashes to be better and easier for attachment, even in thick gloves

 

[stuartv]

Thanks, tbone.

I think I understood almost all of that.

I was thinking of the possibility of rigging a tank as for ring bungees, so the valve wouldn't need to be the style that has an isolator manifold stub. And just adding a ring to a loop bungee - so no quicklink on the bungee part.

I'm just contemplating having one set of tank rigging that could be dropped onto any tank. No special requirements for the valves.

I ran rings for a while. I find neck leashes to be better and easier for attachment, even in thick gloves

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here by "neck leashes". You're talking about a system that is NOT ring bungees? By neck leash are you just talking about hooking a loop bungee around a tank valve? I'm confused.

 

[tbone1004]

My loops go over the valve knobs for mine. If I don't have lefty/righty valves, i.e. travelling/borrowing tanks or whatever, then I say screw it and just do what works. I run my valve outlets facing down, so the backwards valve is on the left. If you get somewhere and only have righty valves, just flip the left bottle so it's valve outlet facing up and call it a day. May have to put your SPG down or lengthen the bungee a little bit, but who cares?

neck leashes are a piece of line/rope/paracord that is prusik'd around a bolt snap then either prusik'd or looped over the valve itself so you have a non-bungee attachment from valve to d-rings.
When I gear up, I attach the neck leash to my d-rings, then attach the bottom to the lower attachment point. I then attach the inflators and don't route the regulators or pull the bungees until I'm horizontal because that allows everything to settle where it is supposed to hang out. Others don't do that and get fully prepped while standing or vertical on the surface, but I don't like that, so I don't

 

[Caveeagle]

I had many of the same questions and confusions.. I only Dive SM occasionally when there is a good reason, but currently have a HOG system adapted for use with ring system. I also have dive rite style stage straps with neck chokers. I have used this setup with both HP100 and LP 72s

My biggest issue with this is how tight I have to keep the ring bungees so that the fronts are up level. I do think the quick-link and maybe using 3" rings Is my problem because I don't have enough stretch in the bungees. I will try swapping the quick-links out for Paracord next time I feel the urge to sidemount.

 

[tursiops]

I gave up on ring bungees. I could never get the dang tanks where I wanted them...they dangled too low and too far back. The ring system seemed to provide only disadvantages except for having the tank valve secure while walking, jumping, climbing a ladder, and the neck leashes solve that problem when it exists.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

For me, I only use the ring system with my Lp50's and DR LT tech rig. With that set up it's nice. Like having nothing on.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

I dive the XDeep Classic rig for all of my cave diving. I have been trained by a company in Mexico. One of the owners of that company is also one of the designers of the XDeep side mount rig. This is what i have been taught...
For AL80's (I know you are asking about steels - but i will begin with aluminum tanks) the lower band for the bolt snaps is set up for the left tank at 2:00 and the right tank at 10:00. Top of the tanks are held in place with left and right bungie cords. They loop over and under the valve knob and loop over the opposite side of the valve handle. The bungie pulls the tank in one direction and the offset lower bolt snap wants to rotate in the opposite direction. This makes the tank hold firm agains your side. For steels you do the same configuration but the bolt snaps line up in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions instead.

 

[decompression]

I'm the opposite of Jim, I spent years switching back and forth trying to find the most flexible way......I settled on looped bungees. I still dive my HOG with rings every once and awhile when teaching.

 

[kensuf]

I'm a loop bungee fan.