Teaching it Neutral Style... a paradigm shift in Scuba instruction

[Divetech99]

That was not an "agency bashing" question. It was an honest question fully in line with the OP's Post and the Thread's content.

Hawkwood, I was actually referring to Darren's post. Not that the points he raised are incorrect, in fact there are merits to many of the things he outlined. But to your point, the same can be said for all other agencies.

Hopefully, this thread continues to be on how we do it (teach off the bottom) rather than what the agencies should do.

I think NetDoc said it well.

Teaching it neutral style is a lifestyle choice for an instructor. It is and should be a grass roots effort from all of us to improve Scuba instruction for all the agencies.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, okay so its CW1 or CW for DSD in a pool. Students are all geared up. What steps, in sequence, do you take to get students neutral as they learn the basic skills and beyond? How do you brief them? Interested in picking up different techniques. Thanks.

NetDoc and I differ in our start because we have different equipment. He is able to trim students out well from the start, but I am a bit limited by the fact that I have to put students in jacket BCDs. We do have trim pockets on the tank, but I still do not get them in mid water in CW 1 as he does. After we get them all decked and do the usual introduction of the gear, I have them swim on the surface for a while and then under the water in the shallow end. That gives me a chance to take cre of weighting issues and kicking issues. It also gets students comfortable. We then get into the instructional position, which is lying comfortably prone with just enough air in the BCD so that they will gently rise and fall a little as they breathe. You want them horizontal--not at a 45° angle. We then go through all the CW1 skills like that. If you can picture it, you will see that every skill done in horizontal trim is fundamentally different from the way it is done on the knees. Students learning skills on the knees are actually learning to do them incorrectly, because they need to perform differently when in a scuba position. Take mask clearing, for example. When kneeling, tipping the head back is counterproductive; when horizontal, it is essential.

Note that when doing the OOA skill, the students must swim briefly to one another, as they would in real life. Note, too, that the reach method for regulator recovery is totally different, and the hose is easily accessed right behind the ear. The skills are actually easier for the students.

After that, I try to do all the rest of the skills in mid water, including equipment replacement. As the students get used to being neutrally buoyant, it becomes easy for them.

 

[darrenlowjq]

Hawkwood, I was actually referring to Darren's post. Not that the points he raised are incorrect, in fact there are merits to many of the things he outlined. But to your point, the same can be said for all other agencies.

Hopefully, this thread continues to be on how we do it (teach off the bottom) rather than what the agencies should do.

I think NetDoc said it well.

I apologize if that was the way it was construed. The only training experience I have is with PADI and GUE, so you can probably tell where I'm coming from. I can't really speak with any authority regarding the training standards of other agencies. The comments I made are of course not PADI specific and applicable to other agencies, though PADI being the biggest probably has the resources to do something to change the status quo if they so choose.

Note that when doing the OOA skill, the students must swim briefly to one another, as they would in real life.

This is the bit that I have some questions regarding as I've only ever seen the on the knees version of this skills. Do you teach students to do the roman handshake to keep them locked to each other or would the OOA diver holding onto the hose instead be better because then each diver can have some control over their own bouyancy?

Also for the skills that involve taking the reg out of the mouth, I've been taught that PADI requires constantly blowing small bubbles out of the mouth as a critical component of those skills, to prevent breath holding. How well does that go with doing mid-water skills since you obviously lose buoyancy while doing so?

 

[Searcaigh]

My tech instructor rarely teaches OW, but when he does he makes a great job, correction awesome job of it.Here he is with one of them who only has 24 dives in his log book


Never knelt in a pool never mind in the ocean from day 1

Unlike me of course who was taught kneeling in pools and in the sea

 

[The Chairman]

Do you teach students to do the roman handshake to keep them locked to each other or would the OOA diver holding onto the hose instead be better because then each diver can have some control over their own bouyancy?

I'm not John, but this is the way I do it. The donor holds onto the hose with their right hand, just to the side of the regulator so as not to block the purge. The recipient then has a death grip on the donor's right wrist. I've been known to break contact if the student isn't holding me tight enough.

Also for the skills that involve taking the reg out of the mouth, I've been taught that PADI requires constantly blowing small bubbles out of the mouth as a critical component of those skills, to prevent breath holding. How well does that go with doing mid-water skills since you obviously lose buoyancy while doing so?

First, I think that's pretty universal among all agencies. That being said, the bubbles should be small enough not to affect buoyancy that much. IOW, it hasn't been a problem for my students yet.

 

[RJP]

Rather than turn this into another agency bashing or my-agency-is-better-than-yours thread, perhaps we can go by the spirit of the OP and talk about methods and techniques to transition new divers to neutral buoyancy early in their training.

There is no need to "transition" students to neutral buoyancy... if you start with it.

Some instructors, on the other hand...

Here's a photo of an IDC Staff Instructor training program posted on FB just last month. You'll need to determine for yourself which divers are MSDT's, IDC Staff Instructors, and Course Directors...

 

[boulderjohn]

This is the bit that I have some questions regarding as I've only ever seen the on the knees version of this skills. Do you teach students to do the roman handshake to keep them locked to each other or would the OOA diver holding onto the hose instead be better because then each diver can have some control over their own bouyancy?

In my own personal diving and in my technical instruction, I use a long hose and bungeed alternate, and I do indeed have the OOA diver hold the hose. I explain that preference to my students, but I have to have them use the standard octo arrangement in our instruction. It is a shop policy that makes sense because the overwhelming majority of the students will be going on vacations after certification and using that kind of gear. It is critical that the OOA diver does not lose the octo after the exchange. I learned that when I was doing a lights out, OOA exit in my cave training. I had to let go of the hose to find the line when we turned a corner, and as I turned the corner, the regulator came out of my mouth. Having no regulator in an absolutely dark situation is uncomfortable.

So, yes, I do have the divers hold on to one another firmly for that reason. If they are ever in a situation in which they need to be independent of one another, they should be aware of that before the dive, and they should not be using that gear assembly.

Also for the skills that involve taking the reg out of the mouth, I've been taught that PADI requires constantly blowing small bubbles out of the mouth as a critical component of those skills, to prevent breath holding. How well does that go with doing mid-water skills since you obviously lose buoyancy while doing so?

As NetDoc said, everyone requires that, not just PADI, and as he also said, that little stream of bubbles does not affect buoyancy enough to be an issue.

To illustrate, when I did my instructor examination, all of the candidates had to do a horizontal CESA starting in 4 feet of water and going 30 feet to a depth of 2.5 feet of water. After 30 seconds of blowing bubbles as we swam, we all just scraped our knees on the bottom and got a point taken off our scores for losing buoyancy control.

 

[tomfcrist]

To illustrate, when I did my instructor examination, all of the candidates had to do a horizontal CESA starting in 4 feet of water and going 30 feet to a depth of 2.5 feet of water. After 30 seconds of blowing bubbles as we swam, we all just scraped our knees on the bottom and got a point taken off our scores for losing buoyancy control.

Really? I would have had a good laugh about how clueless the IE examiner was. That is crazy.

 

[boulderjohn]

Really? I would have had a good laugh about how clueless the IE examiner was. That is crazy.

A number of us made similar comments.

 

[RJP]

Really? I would have had a good laugh about how clueless the IE examiner was. That is crazy.

I was given a ZERO on one of my CW skills by the examiner during my IE... for frog kicking! "That's a highly technical skill which is inappropriate for an OW setting. What would happen if an OW student tried to kick like that?"

You get "0 points" in cases where there is either a standards violation or such a severe deficiency as to create a student safety issue. (If you get a ZERO on a skill you also fail the IE.) When I asked them to show me where in the manual it was stated that a frog kick was prohibited they decided to allow me to redo the skill... as long as I did it with a flutter kick.

Had a voicemail of apology from headquarters waiting for me on the following Monday morning.