Thank you Martin at Rescuean!

[DCBC]

The system says it provides an 11% increase in O2 level over just using rescue breaths (presumably using air as the drive gas). It also says that it can deliver oxygen percentages as high as 80% with the use of deco gasses.

I presume you mean with a deco gas of 100% O2. LOL

Can you take a full O2 kit with you when you're hiking into the woods to dive some remote access location? Can you take it underwater with you because you don't want to leave it in the back of your truck at a busy dive site? Would you rather see 10 divers carry something like this because it's convenient, easy and cheap or have 1 with a full O2 kit? If it's your ass on the line would you refuse help from someone carrying one of these while you waited for the person with the "real O2" kit to finish their dive and unlock their car?

Personally, I take O2 to the dive site regardless of where it is. I don't personally frequent crowded dive sites, but I have a designated DM at the point of entry who looks after the O2 equipment and runs the dive.

I would be happy to accept assistance from anyone in an emergency. What I'm saying, is that you take appropriate precautions. One of those is to have emergency O2. It surprises me that as an instructor you don't appreciate this.

This from the same person who defended the use of spare air by saying the following? Hello pot, meet kettle.

No, I haven't condemed anything. I've simply said that O2 is much better to have in a diving emergency and that it's a reasonably affordable alternative (and is a required item for instructors in some agencies).

You disappoint me John. I thought you knew me better than to think that I'd condem another diver for the choice of their equipment. I do believe that consideration of alternatives is beneficial before making an informed decision. Is this something you disagree with?

 

[denisegg]

The system is oxygen clean so it is compatible with 100% oxygen. On the website, the makers of the pod developed it as a small, compact design that can be taken with you anywhere and used with any enriched mix on hand. Upon reading the instructions and the information on the website, it states
- any mix, available at the time of the emergency, can be used to benefit the patient.
If the normal ‘sport’ diver nitrox level of up to 40% is available - it would allow between 15% and 22% greater oxygen concentration than basic rescue breaths. If there is access to a technical diver’s cylinder at the scene of the emergency, they may have over 40% and up to 80% O2 concentrations - which will be of even greater benefit to the patient.

Again, the designers concept was not to replace an 02 kit, but to use this with the tanks available if no 02 kit was available or had been exhausted. What of this system would cause you not to receive 100% with a 100% deco bottle?
I am not a medical professional and I am not yet trained to use oxygen, but I plan to do so immediately when I begin diving again so any in site is appreciated.
A pic of what came with the kit:

 

[denisegg]

The reference to 80% sounds like an example of a mix that a technical diver might have on hand.

 

[DCBC]

...Again, the designers concept was not to replace an 02 kit, but to use this with the tanks available if no 02 kit was available or had been exhausted.

Hi Denise, thanks for your post. As I've mentioned, I support the concept. What I don't support is the idea that it's in anyway a replacement for emergency oxygen.

As divers, we each have to plan our dives. Part of this process is the selection of emergency equipment that we elect to have on-hand. DAN, the hyperbaric community and many other agencies support (and sometimes require) 100% O2 to be on-hand at the dive site. All I'm saying is that if a person is planning for an emergency diving incident, emergency O2 should be part of that plan.

I can see how this device could be beneficial in supplementing my emergency kit and I will look into purchasing one. I just wanted it understood that when it comes to a diving emergency, there is no medical substitute for 100% O2. I believe that these systems are cost-effective for most divers and it's a shame that more people don't realise how important it is.

 

[Thalassamania]

Is 32 better than just air? Is 36 better than 32? Is 40 better than 36? Maybe, perhaps even likely, but there is no support whatsoever (as far as I know) for their advertising claim that:

"... we are also taught that other appropriate and effective emergency treatment such as rescue breaths, the use of a regulator to supply nitrox to a responsive patient, CPR, etc., is invaluable and can greatly benefit a patient, maybe even save their life ..."
​

I have repeatedly requested a reference for that claim and have been ignored, so I think it is time to classify it as unsupportable marketeering.

 

[Cave Diver]

I presume you mean with a deco gas of 100% O2. LOL

I wouldn't presume anything. I used the example from their website. As far as I can tell it will deliver an O2 percentage equivalent to the contents driving it. Supply it with 80% (used by some tech divers) you bet 80%. Supply it with 100% you get 100%.

Personally, I take O2 to the dive site regardless of where it is. I don't personally frequent crowded dive sites, but I have a designated DM at the point of entry who looks after the O2 equipment and runs the dive.

I don't take a DM with me to run my dives. Usually its me and a buddy and when we pack for a weekend dive trip the truck is already stuffed full of gear. Carrying something small like this would be a welcome alternative to a full on O2 kit.

I would be happy to accept assistance from anyone in an emergency. What I'm saying, is that you take appropriate precautions. One of those is to have emergency O2. It surprises me that as an instructor you don't appreciate this.

What difference does it matter whether you get the O2 from a medical kit or from a bottle of 100% deco gas? As long as you have a way to get it to the victim, that would seem to be the important issue.

BTW, just for clarity, I am NOT an instructor, nor have I ever claimed to be.

No, I haven't condemed anything. I've simply said that O2 is much better to have in a diving emergency and that it's a reasonably affordable alternative (and is a required item for instructors in some agencies).

You disappoint me John. I thought you knew me better than to think that I'd condem another diver for the choice of their equipment. I do believe that consideration of alternatives is beneficial before making an informed decision. Is this something you disagree with?

Where did I ever say you condemned anything? I simply pointed out the irony in fact that you would endorse a product like spare air but say that this item is settling for less.

Since you are a proponent of carrying an emergency medical O2 kit instead, would you mind detailing exactly what your kit consists of and the benefits it provides vs. this system? Pictures would be appreciated as well.

 

[DCBC]

I don't take a DM with me to run my dives. Usually its me and a buddy and when we pack for a weekend dive trip the truck is already stuffed full of gear. Carrying something small like this would be a welcome alternative to a full on O2 kit.

I always have surface support. In the Navy, commercially and while I'm teaching.

What difference does it matter whether you get the O2 from a medical kit or from a bottle of 100% deco gas? As long as you have a way to get it to the victim, that would seem to be the important issue.

Most divers don't dive with a ready supply of 100% O2. If you do, great. I don't feel that this most likely represents the majority of readers of this thread; do you?

BTW, just for clarity, I am NOT an instructor, nor have I ever claimed to be.

My apologies, I thought you were.

Where did I ever say you condemned anything? I simply pointed out the irony in fact that you would endorse a product like spare air but say that this item is settling for less.

The majority of divers who use this product would be settling for less if this is their sole source of emergency O2. Most divers don't dive Nitrox exclusively. Most divers don't carry 100% O2 for decompression purposes or use a CCR. As has already been pointed-out, this is not designed to replace 100% O2, but to supplement it.

Since you are a proponent of carrying an emergency medical O2 kit instead, would you mind detailing exactly what your kit consists of and the benefits it provides vs. this system? Pictures would be appreciated as well.

Any emergency O2 kit provides 100% O2. I don't think I need to outline the benefits of 100% O2 in treatment of a diving accident to a diver who dives a CCR. Do I?

I don't have pictures, but I use a 14 cu.ft. O2 cylinder which will provide approximately one hour of use with a fixed-flow regulator. The Club I teach with also has another O2 unit that I'll take if there are more than 10 divers, or if the distance is more remote.

I also carry a trama bag (2'X1'X1.5') that includes:

Personal Safety/CPR:
10 pair Gloves
1 pair Safety Goggles
1 CPR Microshield
1 Alcohol Hand Sanitizer, 4oz

Small Injuries:
60 Adhesive bandages
10 butterfly bandages
10 - 2x2 Gauze Pads (2 packs)
10 - 2x2 Gauze Pads (2 packs)
10 - 4x4 Gauze Pads, (2 packs)
3 - 5x9 Dressings
4 Gauze Rolls
1 Roll Plastic Tape
1 Roll Cloth Tape
1 Roll Porous Tape
4 Triangle Bandages
2 Elastic Bandages
15 Antiseptic Wipes
20 Alcohol Preps
10 Butterfly Bandages
10 Triple Antibiotic Ointment
1 roll self adherent waterproof wrap
1 Roll Plastic Medical Tape, 1" x 10 yds
1 Roll Porous Medical Tape, 2" x 10 yds
1 Roll Cloth Medical Tape, 1" x 10 yds
1 roll self adherent waterproof wrap, 1 inch
10 Antibiotic Ointment

Larger Injuries/Trauma:
1 pair Trauma Shears
3 - 5 x 9 Gauze Dressing
10 - 4x4 Gauze Pads (2 packs)
1 Trauma Dressing, 10x30
4 Gauze Rolls, 3 in x 75 in
4 Triangular Bandage
2 Elastic Bandages, 2 inch
1 Mylar Survival Blanket
1 Set of 5 Oral Airways
1 Stethoscope
1 Blood Pressure Cuff
1 C-Collar, Adjustable, Adult Size

Wound Cleaning/Misc.
2 Sodium Chloride Irrigation Solution, 250ml
2 Resealable Plastic Bag
2 Red Biohazard Trash Bags
2 Ink Pens
4 Instant Cold Packs, large
1 Bandage Scissors, 4.5 inch
2 Insta-Glucose
4 Tongue Blades / Finger Splints
1 Disposable Penlight
1 Splinter Forceps
1 Tweezers
1 Forehead Thermometer
1 Bottle Aspirin
1 Bottle Acetaminophen
1 Bottle Gravol
2 Bottles Isopropyl Alcohol
1 Sm Bottle Vinegar
1 Bottle Meat Tenderizer

 

[Cave Diver]

I always have surface support. In the Navy, commercially and while I'm teaching.

I'm not in the Navy, I don't teach and I don't dive commercially. Neither do most of the divers I know. We don't fit your profile so your needs may not be the same as ours.

Most divers don't dive with a ready supply of 100% O2. If you do, great. I don't feel that this most likely represents the majority of readers of this thread; do you?

Again, most of the divers I know, do have 100% on hand a lot of time. However, it's the delivery system thats lacking and this item addresses that. I can't say for certainty whether it fits most of the readers of the thread or not. But since you just pointed out that most divers dont dive with O2, do you think they're suddenly going to start after reading this? I think it's more likely they'd consider adding this piece of kit to their bag so they're able to use whatever is on hand. Whether it's 40%, 50%, 80% or 100%

The majority of divers who use this product would be settling for less if this is their sole source of emergency O2. Most divers don't dive Nitrox exclusively. Most divers don't carry 100% O2 for decompression purposes or use a CCR. As has already been pointed-out, this is not designed to replace 100% O2, but to supplement it.

Any emergency O2 kit provides 100% O2. I don't think I need to outline the benefits of 100% O2 in treatment of a diving accident to a diver who dives a CCR. Do I?

Which is exactly the reason why having a method to deliver O2 that's already on hand can be a benefit. I see that you prefer to dance around my question rather than answer it. So one more time for you:


would you mind detailing exactly what your kit consists of and the benefits it provides vs. this system?

I don't have pictures, but I use a 14 cu.ft. O2 cylinder

Ok, so you've answered the first part of the question: You have a 14 cft bottle. On my CCR I have a 19cft bottle and we often have at least one 40 cft bottle as well. So typically we will have more O2 available than what your kit contains. PLUS, we could use bottles anyone else had as well. Can your kit do that?

which will provide approximately one hour of use with a fixed-flow regulator.

This unit allows a fixed flow of 15 or 25 LPM.

So what is the big drawback that is making them settle for less?

No one is arguing that there may not be bigger, better systems out there. No one is suggesting you toss out your current kit and replace it with this one. What I'm saying is that this system seems to be perfectly adequate and fills a void that is out there right now.

 

[denisegg]

I planned to use it with my 02 100% AL 40 deco bottle. How does that differ from an 02 kit? I really don't understand?

 

[Thalassamania]

A problem with that system is that ultimately it delivers whatever it is handling at 90% or less, even pure O2 will be 90% or lower. The only system that gives you 100% is a demand regulator.