Thanks !!

[reeldive]

Thanks to "do it easy", "Caribeandiver", "1 T submariner" and any others who posted a reply

Ive added a 19 cf pony and reg to my equipment already== just in case. I try to pick my dive buddies a bit more cautiously now as well- a bit more than "lets go dive, we'll use my boat" one guy I dove with just said> "see you on yhe bottom": another I noticed was useing his octo as primary- his primary didn't work as well and hadn't been overhauled in 9 yrs. yet another rolled off with < 200 psi in his tank for a 70+ foot dive - he stayed pretty close to me and used my octo for the accent- found out after the dive what was going on-- OK I will get solo certified and be my own best buddy!!

except when diveing with the many responsible divers I've had the pleasure of meeting and diveing with one of whom is my wife

 

[do it easy]

70' dive with less than 200 psi? Did you mean 2000?

And welcome to the solo forum- there's lots of good info in here and the rest of the board. I would suggest starting with the gas management threads.

 

[reeldive]

yup My fingers don't know how to type

 

[ClayJar]

Oh, deary me! Those guys sound worse than the kick-in-the-head firemen I dove with (they didn't have a clue they were doing it, but they just had this knack for it).

I was instabuddied with a divemaster on one of my LDS's Panama City Beach checkout dives (my buddy skipped the second dive due to hypothermia... I was in a drysuit ). He entered first, and by the time I'd pulled around to the anchor line, he was *nowhere* to be found. He was a divemaster, however, and I was diving solo+buddy (as I *always* do), so I did the dive anyway. If I wasn't a prepared solo diver, I would've really been miffed.

I don't have a solo certification, but many of my dives (and all of them in the winter) are solo dives. If you want another solo diver to drop by and buddy up for some dives, just let me know. I "learned" to solo by diving with passive buddies, but in my case, that was because they were not good buddies/divers. Diving with a good buddy diver who is merely acting passive to let you dive pseudo-solo is probably a decent way to get used to having to monitor everything about your dive completely on your own.

(Basically, when buddy diving, I spend as much time as my buddy asking questions and working the plan throughout the dive, but when being a solo diver observer, I don't signal anything unless it becomes necessary for safety. For me, keeping tabs on everything was completely natural, so I made an easy solo transition. For others, like my buddy-family's parents, if nobody's around to ask, they'll get absent-minded about things like air, depth, ascent rate, etc.)

 

[ArcticDiver]

Input for your decision process:

-Most people dive a lot more solo than they realize. Even if in a group; if the other people are too far away to notice a problem and immediately help you are diving solo. It isn't how many people are in the water. It is how many people can come to your immediate assistance.

-The only true emergency is not having enough breathing gas to solve the problem. So, a responsible diver will be thinking in terms of maximum tank size you can practically carry instead of the common, but mistaken, thought of minumum tank size they can get away with.

-The number of divers on a particular dive is a judgement call. The more divers, within limits, the more resources to solve any problem. But additional divers also means more human and mechanical things that have a possiblity of failure, thus a higher probablility of having a problem.

-Much of the conversation about Solo, DIR, Wreck, etc is more about economics and personal style than it is about safety and skill.

I should say that I really enjoy Team Diving. It is much more fun in most circumstances than Solo. It is even more convenient. Plus, I like people and like to learn from others. But, I was forced into solo diving early on (Under 10 dives) and have done a lot of it since.

 

[ClayJar]

-Most people dive a lot more solo than they realize. Even if in a group; if the other people are too far away to notice a problem and immediately help you are diving solo. It isn't how many people are in the water. It is how many people can come to your immediate assistance.

At the risk of seeming to be a semanticist, might I suggest that using the same word, "solo", to describe both prepared solo divers and unprepared where's-my-buddy divers is imprecise? Although it would likely be pointless to attempt to popularize a new term, it would be far more descriptive, nonetheless.

Someone who is on a dive with other people when they suddenly realize they are no longer in a position to be mutually supportive of each other is now diving alone, but accidentally finding themselves alone should be considered separately from those who knowingly choose to dive solo. Giving unintentional solo a separate name is purely artificial; however, the distinction should be observed.

-The only true emergency is not having enough breathing gas to solve the problem. So, a responsible diver will be thinking in terms of maximum tank size you can practically carry instead of the common, but mistaken, thought of minumum tank size they can get away with.

I'm afraid I must disagree with both the minimalists and your maximalism. While I would consider it supremely foolish to attempt to whittle my contingency gas down to the bare minimum (i.e. the "but 13cf *should* be fine" concept), at the same time, attempting to carry as much gas as possible seems flawed, as well.

A good diver should have a solid grasp on gas management (and for solo divers, exceptionally so). Choosing to carry more air just because it's more air is not a valid basis for that decision.

Take one of my "normal" solo dives as an example. It's open water, and there is a hard bottom at 85 feet, and I'm carrying an AL100 for primary gas and an AL19 as contingency (tested at the beginning of the dive and slung). If I lose primary gas at any point in the dive, I can switch to my contingency gas and execute a normal ascent. I will also have several minutes of bottom time available on the contingency gas, even when considering a normal ascent with a highly elevated breathing rate. There is essentially zero chance of assistance on the bottom. If I lose all gas, primary and contingency, I can still fall back on a free ascent and deal with the consequences.

Is there any problem which I will not be able to solve in the time given to me by an AL19 that I could solve given more air? If I'm so thoroughly entangled that I can't cut my way out in 15 minutes, am I likely to be able to cut my way out in 30?

For some diving (wreck penetration, caving), more gas may be universally a good thing, but if it benefits me almost nothing for the type of diving I'm doing, there is nothing wrong with weighing the positives and negatives and deciding that a smaller reserve would be better. (When you're back in an overhead, "just because it's more" is a *very* valid reason for carrying more air. )

I should say that I really enjoy Team Diving. It is much more fun in most circumstances than Solo. It is even more convenient. Plus, I like people and like to learn from others.

I, too, enjoy diving with good teams (in my case, that tends to mean two of us, but that's because that's all we are right now). It can indeed be more fun (although I do find solo to be more relaxing for me, personally). Learning from each other is certainly great.

Just one question... How, for you, is it even more convenient? For me, here in Baton Rouge, I have to drive 4-6 hours, at least, to go diving. I started solo diving because I couldn't find anyone who was both willing and able to dive when I could. (My best dive buddy works on weekends, and I've got an office job.) Obviously, I don't dispute that team diving can be more convenient to you, but my personal experience has not shown me when that would be. (I'm honestly asking. I like learning, too.)

I suppose if I had a good team of divers and didn't have to get everything together myself, it might be more convenient, but with most of my diving being inland shore diving, there really isn't much inconvenience to share. (I'd still have to get all my gear together, just the same. There's no working out of charters and all that when you're diving a lake, dam, spring, or quarry -- they don't go anywhere. )

Anyway...

 

[captain]

My opinion on scuba is you never will have enough gas to handle any possible situation and you must accept that. If you can't than solo may not be for you. Twin 120's may not get out of a really bad entangement or other entrapment even if fairly shallow. Not saying it's likely but it is possible.

 

[ArcticDiver]

At the risk of seeming to be a semanticist, might I suggest that using the same word, "solo", to describe both prepared solo divers and unprepared where's-my-buddy divers is imprecise? ...

In my case and that of many of the other divers I know they are never unprepared. Even Team Diving I am always prepared to execute the remaining dive on my own. We are mutually supporting but independent divers. In fact, I seldom am in a "where's my buddy" situation. I know very well where they are. It is just that they are too far away to do me any good in an immediate emergency. I had this happen on my recent trip to HI. The Dive Guide and the other diver just swam off and left me. I knew where they were. But, they were too far off to render any assistance if I had a problem.

I'm afraid I must disagree with both the minimalists and your maximalism. While I would consider it supremely foolish to attempt to whittle my contingency gas down to the bare minimum (i.e. the "but 13cf *should* be fine" concept), at the same time, attempting to carry as much gas as possible seems flawed, as well....Is there any problem which I will not be able to solve in the time given to me by an AL19 that I could solve given more air? If I'm so thoroughly entangled that I can't cut my way out in 15 minutes, am I likely to be able to cut my way out in 30?....

Wouldn't you feel foolish just before you died if you had almost cut your self out of a fishing net when you ran out of breathing gas? Or, to have a problem with your large primary tank and then, keeping mind that troubles often come in threes, you could have had enough gas on board to handle the next emergency but chose not to take it.

I could have used a bit better grammar perhaps. But, most of the debate regarding extra tanks focuses on the idea of carrying only enough gas to "escape" the situation a person finds themself in. Most of the calculations assume only one emergency and a direct ascent to the surface with no interference. A common theme says that under so & so circumstance I can get to the surface with a particular amount of gas so why carry more?

My point is: Balance your gas supply so loss of one tank isn't a catastrophe. Carry as much gas as practical to give yourself as much time as practical to solve the problems that may arise.

I, too, enjoy diving with good teams (in my case, that tends to mean two of us, but that's because that's all we are right now). It can indeed be more fun (although I do find solo to be more relaxing for me, personally). Learning from each other is certainly great.

Just one question... How, for you, is it even more convenient? ...

I live a long way from other divers too. That is why I often refer to myself as a Batch Diver. When I go somewhere I get in a bunch of dives whereas the locals can continously dive as they wish.

I meant convenience during the dive. I've had several occasions where having another knowledgable person right there was very convenient and helpful. In fact, on a couple cases due to miscommunication I didn't take full advantage of the help.

Not covnenient in a logistics sense; convenient in an execution sense.

 

[ClayJar]

Wouldn't you feel foolish just before you died if you had almost cut your self out of a fishing net when you ran out of breathing gas?

Actually, considering I'd have somewhere between 15 minutes and an hour or so between exhausting my back gas and running out of my 19, I don't think "foolish" would enter my mind. Maybe, "Man, this is one heck of a net!" or "I am a leaf in the wind." (sorry, Serenity reference).

A common theme says that under so & so circumstance I can get to the surface with a particular amount of gas so why carry more?

My point is: Balance your gas supply so loss of one tank isn't a catastrophe. Carry as much gas as practical to give yourself as much time as practical to solve the problems that may arise.

I certainly concur, then. Although my contingency gas is only a quarter (or a fifth, on an AL100) of my primary gas, it's *considerably* more than I would need for handling a few simultaneous failures. Of course, if seven things hit at once (including the Great White Quarry Sharks), well, at least I had fun, eh?

I meant convenience during the dive. I've had several occasions where having another knowledgable person right there was very convenient and helpful. In fact, on a couple cases due to miscommunication I didn't take full advantage of the help.

Not covnenient in a logistics sense; convenient in an execution sense.

Ah, I follow you now. (Of course, being a "local" diver at several of my usual sites, I'm now the person that other people ask. If you're ever looking to dive in central Alabama or the non-cave parts of the springs near Ponce de Leon, FL, I might be able to be a bit of convenience. )

 

[ArcticDiver]

... If you're ever looking to dive in central Alabama or the non-cave parts of the springs near Ponce de Leon, FL, I might be able to be a bit of convenience. )

The miltary had me in North Florida and Alabama twice upon a time. Have had a hankering to see what the area is like now. Plus, Alaska is the only state that doesn't have the fish I used to enjoy catching. So, you just might see me.