The Aqualung Discussion [ Moved ]

[Debraw]

You think the cust. has a time of it with "old school" shops, you should see how a "new school" rep. is thought of in an "old school" shop.....

Oh and I actually feel that more shops have adapted to new school faster than many reps.

I can only imagine! I was hit right square in the forehead with the good old boy mentality as a female dive shop owner four years ago. I think we are really on a the great cusp of a changing and/or changed industry.

 

[cerich]

I can only imagine! I was hit right square in the forehead with the good old boy mentality as a female dive shop owner four years ago. I think we are really on a the great cusp of a changing and/or changed industry.

It's changed already. Problem is some shops and manufs. haven't figured it out yet. Personally it would be easier for me to pick out new school shops and ignore the old school. I know they will prosper and grow, me with them. The problem with that is the industry will continue to contract unless we can get more and more new school going on. In the long term it'll be much easier for me to make money when the industry is growing than by trying to steal shelf space from other manufs.

Thats why I post on this thread.... The LDS and the consumer need to understand that bad policy has placed them in a bad position that will get worse unless there is change.

 

[RiverRat]

Debraw and Cerich
You both have AWESOME attitudes! Both as an LDS and Manufacturer. You stand as good role models for the industry. If I ever get into a scuba retail business I hope to have the same attitude. I just can't see getting a customer caught in between all of the issues currently harming the industry. May you both go far....

 

[jwdiverdude]

The posters who have often said that the manufacturers make money off of selling to LP because they don't have to honor the warranties have said it more than just about SP and AL. I am making a general observation since this thread has now become more about business practices rather than direct observations of AL. I have had warranties honored from the following:

Oceanic
Mares
Sea and Sea
Sealife
Bare
Genesis
Underwater Kinetics
Zeagle

all lines that are know to be supportive of their authorized dealers and for the most part online sales

Let me clarify... on the warranty issue, before I get a PM. I handle the issues as a sole owner of an LDS. My suppliers back me because they know me and how I handle things. If for some reason they are not honored by a supplier then I honor with a trade in on a new product from whatever line they choose that I distribute for. Now offering great trade-in values for working or nonworking Al and SP products!!! Line forms to the left.......

I have seen this practice as fairly common with the LDSs i frequent up and down th east coast, but the key is the trade in for a line you distribute isn't it? It's like car dealing...You drive a ford but I sell Dodge If I can convert you to driving a dodge it's a win for both of us. What do you do about the customer who doesn't want a line you distribute?

In the end customers shop with their pocketbook, and so do dive shop owners. :blinking:

And knowing that Manufactures should not be penalizing their authorized dealers for having cracked that code and trying to compete against an unregulated Grey market.

I do applaud your attitude and your way of conducting your business. Without customers the LDSs would be out of business so customer care and relations is important in fact crucial. but warranties are a side issue to the thread main issue of Deals potentially losing their dealerships of certain lines of the issue of trying to competitively price against an unchecked grey market.

Rhetorical question Deb: What do you do when someone comes in and says they found X product, that you carry, online at LP for Y price?
Of course you do your best to match the price or come as close as you can to get the sale.
Do your distributors penalize you for doing this? I am sure the answer is No they do not.
Your distributors don't. AL does and did, that is why this thread is here because of what happened to PE's shop.

 

[Debraw]

I have seen this practice as fairly common with the LDSs i frequent up and down th east coast, but the key is the trade in for a line you distribute isn't it? <SNIP>What do you do about the customer who doesn't want a line you distribute? <SNIP> Rhetorical question Deb: What do you do when someone comes in and says they found X product, that you carry, online at LP for Y price?
Of course you do your best to match the price or come as close as you can to get the sale.
Do your distributors penalize you for doing this? I am sure the answer is No they do not.
Your distributors don't. AL does and did, that is why this thread is here because of what happened to PE's shop.

Uh yeah the key is to trade into to a line I distribute. If I could sell all lines I would. The suppliers will not let me. You make it sound as if I am pulling as fast one on people by allowing a trade in. As for your second question "What do I do about a customer who doesn't want a line I distribute?" I find the customer friendly shop that does sell that product and I call them to get a stock and availability. Scubatoys, Emerald Sea Divers and even my closest dive shop Arlington Scuba have all gotten calls from me and/or my customers about product I may not carry and or product I do carry, but do not have in stock. Ever see Miracle on 34th street? It does happen people do leave Macy's to shop at Gimbel's. Guess who wins? My shop and my customer.
Actually, yes my distributors will penalize me for selling below MAP. I was only commenting in my orginal post about the argument that manufacturers are selling to LP because they are saving money on not providing warranties. There is nothing that stops me from giving away product, classes, air fills, etc. etc. to compete with MAP. The key for any retailer is find your niche, listen to your customer and meet their needs before your own.

 

[jwdiverdude]

Uh yeah the key is to trade into to a line I distribute. If I could sell all lines I would. The suppliers will not let me. You make it sound as if I am pulling as fast one on people by allowing a trade in. As for your second question "What do I do about a customer who doesn't want a line I distribute?" I find the customer friendly shop that does sell that product and I call them to get a stock and availability. Scubatoys, Emerald Sea Divers and even my closest dive shop Arlington Scuba have all gotten calls from me and/or my customers about product I may not carry and or product I do carry, but do not have in stock. Ever see Miracle on 34th street? It does happen people do leave Macy's to shop at Gimbel's. Guess who wins? My shop and my customer.
Actually, yes my distributors will penalize me for selling below MAP. I was only commenting in my orginal post about the argument that manufacturers are selling to LP because they are saving money on not providing warranties. There is nothing that stops me from giving away product, classes, air fills, etc. etc. to compete with MAP. The key for any retailer is find your niche, listen to your customer and meet their needs before your own.

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone said that manufacturers were selling to Gray marketers to avoid honoring warranties, but I'll have to go and skim the thread again to be sure.
I believe it is more an issue of moving more product. Someone ,somewhere bought the AL products at whatever price AL was charging, so AL already got their pound of flesh for those items. Anything a Grey market distributer moves is gravy for AL because it keeps the product flowing.
I believe the Warranty thing is an ineffective red herring. It is placebo offered to authorized dealers to 1.) make them think that their product is superior to the gray market products. 2.) use as a "tool", and a weak tool at that, to sway consumers to buy in the LDS.... Yes Mr. Smith...it is the same reg but that one doesn;t have a warranty..." 3.) and because of number 2 "and here is why mine costs x dollars more."

I know when I was working at the LDS the stuff the owner showed me that when you looked at say LPs price plus the shipping (overnight/2nd day) they were charging. The customer was getting the product for about the same price give or take a few bucks but with no warranty. Not sure how their shipping stuff stacks up these days but that was true about 2 years ago.
Customers were always trying to get the shop owner to match the price without shipping factored in. To his credit he was mostly sucessful at overcoming that by bringing the customer to his computer and punching in the gear they wanted, asking them how they would get it shipped from LP and then working with "That" price.

 

[Debraw]

Post # 263-

They already allow internet sales.... through Leisurepro. And with this unathorized dealer distribution channel (which probably moves more product than their authorized dealers) they also receive the benefit of not having to pay for warranty costs (same revenue to them w/ lower costs from not having to service warranties = more profit).

Again, the problem is that they are dictating what price and what distribution channels the LDS authorized dealers are allowed to use. In doing so they are limiting fair competition and for the LDS to act competitively within the free market system.

All the while still making their profits from the sales to the LDS and LeisurePro.

BUT that is not the only I have ever seen. I could pull up quite a few other posts all touting this particular argument so I am not singling this post out specifically. This one just struck me because I had seen this same reasoning for about the umpteenth time so I decided to say that I have not experienced any problems getting service work for my customers, no matter where they purchased it. I remember talking about it on a Scubapro thread also but no one even commented on my post at that time.

 

[Brandon]

This one just struck me because I had seen this same reasoning for about the umpteenth time so I decided to say that I have not experienced any problems getting service work for my customers, no matter where they purchased it. I remember talking about it on a Scubapro thread also but no one even commented on my post at that time.

Scubapro and Aqualung seem to be the only companies routinely denying warranty service for gray market gear, and encouraging their dealers to do the same.

Some of these dealers aren't even recognizing their own warranty plans... or won't allow you to use the warranty if you didn't buy from -their- shop.

It's a mess, and we're going to change it. You're doing a heck of a job Deb!

-B.

 

[Debraw]

<SNIP>It's a mess, and we're going to change it. You're doing a heck of a job Deb!-B.

Thanks for the kudos, I am tap dancing as fast as I can to keep up with the ever changing world of scuba! :blinking:

 

[jwdiverdude]

Post # 263-



BUT that is not the only I have ever seen. I could pull up quite a few other posts all touting this particular argument so I am not singling this post out specifically. This one just struck me because I had seen this same reasoning for about the umpteenth time so I decided to say that I have not experienced any problems getting service work for my customers, no matter where they purchased it. I remember talking about it on a Scubapro thread also but no one even commented on my post at that time.

And my point is still you are sighting as your specific example the dealers you distribute for. They are not the same animal as AL nor is anyone here contesting the fact that your distributor have cracked the code.

but to be clear you are not talking about getting service from AL?
If we are not talking about the support that is given to items purchased from unathorized dealer through AL. It really is a non-issue.

You noting these others as not giving you a problem is an excellent point. It show that these other dealers have got good customer relations, but the point of the thread is that AL is not and drives home the point Other dealers good - AL bad.