The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

[PhilEllis]

...........Person goes online, see's PADI "get your card online program" and makes an impulse buy. Student then half-asses thier way through, over about a 3 month period then prints out the knowledge reviews. Now, student goes to the recommended PADI 5 star shop, instructor says "take this test. I'll help you if you get stuck." Then they go spend one day in the pool and first 2 open waters, then 2 open water and a C-card on day 2.

I fail to understand why, when told that the program works one way, people continue to insist that it works another way............

You said "person goes online, see's PADI get your card online program".........

A person WOULD NOT see such an adverisement, because you CANNOT get a PADI (or any other agency) scuba certification card by taking an internet diving course. There is no such thing. The PADI eLearning program is an on-line academic preparation class, using multi-media to develop the learning, using computerized remediation to reinforce any subjects a student does not understand after taking a quiz, and using online final testing to test student academic skills. Through out this entire period (when the student is taking the eLearning classroom), they are in complete communication with instructors from the chosen PADI IRRC dive center. The communications available through eLearning include direct emails to the student from the dive instructor, instructor-created info notices attached to any section the instructor chooses, chapter and session specific blogs where students can interact with the instructor, direct telephone contact with the instructor anytime it is needed by the student, and physical face-to-face communication with the staff at the dive store, should the student choose to use that; a MORE EXPANSIVE communication process than is currently available for students who study at home.

Upon completion of the eLearning program, the student comes to the store for any level of added academic work the instructor chooses, including 2 nights a week for six weeks, if that is what the instructor chooses. PADI is suggesting that store establish "Tutor and Test" nights or something similar to allow students to interface with the instructor and get any information they are unable to understand from the eLearning program. Prior to ANY eLearning student getting in the water with the instructor, they must also undergo a 20 question (I previously identified it as 18 questions, in error) final exam WITH THE INSTRUCTOR PRESENT, to measure understanding. This exam includes 3 problems, solved with the RDP.

After all of this, the water skills work begins. The student contact at this point will be just as it has always been. There is NO reduction in the skills in the PADI system, nor (to my knowledge) is there any plan to make a reduction. An instructor teaching an eLearning student CAN do the water work in two days (CW1, CW2, CW3, OP1, OP2 first day.....CW4, CW5, OW3, OW4 second day) if they choose, JUST AS THEY CAN WITH THE GO DIVE CREWPACK method of learning. Nothing here is changed.

A second point to your post. A student choosing eLearning from PADI WILL NOT be assigned to any particular store, 5 Star or otherwise. The store WILL need to be a PADI IRRC member, just as they do today to show up in the "Find a Dive Center" listing. PADI cannot, and would never dare, dictate where a customer goes for the water work. Unfortunately, you are correct on one issue. There is no provision for an eLearning student to be referred to an independent instructor. As it currently stands, there is no way for any visitor to the PADI website to find an independent instructor. Independent instructors will have to continue to market their services in whatever manner they currently do. Listing on the PADI "Find a Dive Center" list is an advertising perk that comes with the membership in the IRRC program, a program for which the dive center pays.

There is no justification to continue to claim this program is something it is not. We can disagree as to the widsom of launching such a program. But, it is foolish to characterize it as something it is not. IT IS NOT A LEARN TO DIVE, GET YOUR C-CARD OVER THE INTERNET program.

Phil Ellis

 

[Thalassamania]

I fail to understand why, when told that the program works one way, people continue to insist that it works another way............

You said "person goes online, see's PADI get your card online program".........

I don’t believe the FireDiver meant anyone to take that literally.

A person WOULD NOT see such an adverisement, because you CANNOT get a PADI (or any other agency) scuba certification card by taking an internet diving course. There is no such thing. The PADI eLearning program is an on-line academic preparation class, using multi-media to develop the learning, using computerized remediation to reinforce any subjects a student does not understand after taking a quiz, and using online final testing to test student academic skills. Through out this entire period (when the student is taking the eLearning classroom), they are in complete communication with instructors from the chosen PADI IRRC dive center. The communications available through eLearning include direct emails to the student from the dive instructor, instructor-created info notices attached to any section the instructor chooses, chapter and session specific blogs where students can interact with the instructor, direct telephone contact with the instructor anytime it is needed by the student, and physical face-to-face communication with the staff at the dive store, should the student choose to use that; a MORE EXPANSIVE communication process than is currently available for students who study at home.

Upon completion of the eLearning program, the student comes to the store for any level of added academic work the instructor chooses, including 2 nights a week for six weeks, if that is what the instructor chooses. PADI is suggesting that store establish "Tutor and Test" nights or something similar to allow students to interface with the instructor and get any information they are unable to understand from the eLearning program. Prior to ANY eLearning student getting in the water with the instructor, they must also undergo a 20 question (I previously identified it as 18 questions, in error) final exam WITH THE INSTRUCTOR PRESENT, to measure understanding. This exam includes 3 problems, solved with the RDP.

That’s all well and good … a very nice scenario. I have no argument with either eLearning per se or the methodology outlined, but past performance being the best predictor of future performance would lend one to believe that the PADIs eLearning program will be a dumbing down of a dumbing down tanslated into a new medium and that is the concern that think people are expressing.

After all of this, the water skills work begins. The student contact at this point will be just as it has always been. There is NO reduction in the skills in the PADI system, nor (to my knowledge) is there any plan to make a reduction. An instructor teaching an eLearning student CAN do the water work in two days (CW1, CW2, CW3, OP1, OP2 first day.....CW4, CW5, OW3, OW4 second day) if they choose, JUST AS THEY CAN WITH THE GO DIVE CREWPACK method of learning. Nothing here is changed.

That is to say that the water portion of the course will not change, not improve, it will remain as good or as bad as it currently is.

A second point to your post. A student choosing eLearning from PADI WILL NOT be assigned to any particular store, 5 Star or otherwise. The store WILL need to be a PADI IRRC member, just as they do today to show up in the "Find a Dive Center" listing. PADI cannot, and would never dare, dictate where a customer goes for the water work. Unfortunately, you are correct on one issue. There is no provision for an eLearning student to be referred to an independent instructor. As it currently stands, there is no way for any visitor to the PADI website to find an independent instructor. Independent instructors will have to continue to market their services in whatever manner they currently do. Listing on the PADI "Find a Dive Center" list is an advertising perk that comes with the membership in the IRRC program, a program for which the dive center pays.

That says to me that PADI wants to see independents go away.

 

[matts1w]

That says to me that PADI wants to see independents go away.

Guess I will answer this with the cry of those who love the .com megastores and the like....

The independents will have to work that much harder, adapt, find a way to make their service special, or go out of business...right?

Kind of sucks when a 900 lbs. gorlilla comes beating down your small business's door. Does not really matter if it is PADI or graymarketscubacrap.com, does it?

That being said I really think the number of people who actually go the online route will be very, very small- at least in my part of the world.

 

[in_cavediver]

The independents will have to work that much harder, adapt, find a way to make their service special, or go out of business...right?

Or crossover to another agency that values their presence.

 

[matts1w]

Or crossover to another agency that values their presence.

Exactly.

 

[rakkis]

That says to me that PADI wants to see independents go away.

I've heard rumors that would indicate that is coming years down the road. But that's all they are.. rumors.

As things stand now - particularly with eLearning since that is the purpose of this thread, independents are not being marginalized. Let's list a few facts:

- Independents have NEVER been listed in the PADI website
- Stores have ALWAYS been listed
- Stores AND independents have always been responsible for their own advertising outside of the PADI website.

eLearning has not changed these facts. Stores aren't going to stop posting on church newsletters. Independents aren't going to stop using craigslist (for example).

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of independents is that most of their students come to them through word of mouth. A portion of independents also work local advertisement. How will eLearning change this exactly?

 

[J.R.]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of independents is that most of their students come to them through word of mouth. A portion of independents also work local advertisement. How will eLearning change this exactly?

Pardon the enquires of a 'non-professional'... but, if PADI is willing to certify instructors without requiring them to show shop affiliation... why would then then not support them in 'furthering the need for more divers"?? If the issue is to promote diving... (as a pure motive) I would think that their educational model would be more inclusive and encouraging... I would think that they would be more supportive of independants who are willing to involve more people in diving...

From a CUSTOMER point of view... I'll answer your question... it further enhances the perception that there are TWO classes of PADI instructor... and why should I go to a 2nd class instrutor who isn't, obviously, getting the full support of the agency the was willing to certify them?

If the concerns that I'm hearing on this thread have any validity, and I think they may... I would expect, at some point, for PADI to insist that to be an instructor you must have an active LDS affiliation (perhaps through an LDS sponsorship)... or your instructor card will no longer be recognized. It would be an easy step to take as the only arguement that would have to be made is that of "quality assurance" can not be validated through indepenants as it can through a brick and mortar facility... among other things.

Looking at the apparent business model on this, and separating it from a simple context of 'diving' or 'PADI'... indicates to me a company who's attitude is "what's good for MY COMPANY is good for THE INDUSTRY".

On its own, I see some issues with eLearning as relates... specifically, to OW training. I've mentioned them before. Others on this thread have likewise brought up very similar issues. However, that is ONE aspect of the problem... but, e-Learnnig is NOT the whole problem... its a symptom of the problem and it is a mechanism. Trying to keep the focus on the single thread issue of e-Learning *seems* to be a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" argument... the two issues are wed...

So... how, again... does this make for BETTER divers???

 

[J.R.]

I'd also like to point out that the eLearning material could just have easily been included in disks to run on all those internet computers... or have been given to instructors to facilitate classroom instruction... but... that' doesn't seem to have happened... why? ... seems, to me, to a stong case for "the medium is the message"...

 

[rakkis]

I'd also like to point out that the eLearning material could just have easily been included in disks to run on all those internet computers... or have been given to instructors to facilitate classroom instruction... but... that' doesn't seem to have happened... why? ... seems, to me, to a stong case for "the medium is the message"...

That happened even before the current online eLearning push.

I don't know when it started, but for at least a couple years, PADI has had a CD-ROM version of the course manual. In fact, they also approve up to 4 people (in the same family) using the single disk for everybody.

The only real difference between the CD-ROM and online eLearning content is that you don't need to go to a shop to purchase the product, you can "start today!" from your computer.

I do believe that the CD-ROM version requires quizes and final to be taken with the instructor, but I am uncertain as I've yet to have a student use the CD-ROM and my manual is in my car. Perhaps someone can help?

 

[webjr]

Or crossover to another agency that values their presence.

Give that man a CIGAAARR !!