The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[anthem]

chris_b, let's put it this way - I'm sure those stores and people are there to service people who are truly interested in buying products/services from their store. They aren't in the business of stocking items for you to try out that wetstuit/reg/gear and then have you buy it elsewhere. Online stores don't have a showroom for you to try on and thats the limitations that you're dealt with when dealing with them. Exploiting a store to get around the problem is in my opinion - unethical.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying buying online is unethical, just exploiting a store the way some do and then not patronizing them. They may not say it, but believe me, they aren't their to service their competitors.

 

[wetman]

I woudl take the stance that you feel you did something wrong and ask them what it was - and come accross as if you really are serious (whether or not you are). That way, you'll guilt them into feeling like the pricks they are or you'll find out that something in your delivery really was offensive to them. Either way, don't spend time on them again and use it as a good learning experience.

steve

 

[Genesis]

as being 30-40% more expensive than where they bought the gear from?

Is it the BUYER's fault that the seller priced themself out of the market?

Nope.

 

[SM Diver]

Personally, if they came back to me to assemble their stuff, I would have quoted them an hourly rate. Yeah, the consumer is free to shop at LP if he wants to, but to come back to the shop and expect help with putting the stuff together is friggen laughable.

 

[Rick Murchison]

chris_b once bubbled...
I guess I thought those were salespeople. So who *provides* services?

People who are paid by someone else - usually taxpayers - to "provide" the service. But to disconnect the service from the compensation is a fallacy. Somebody has to pay, whether it is from the pockets of the other customers of the shop in a retail situation, the pockets of the donors to the church where the provider is a priest, or extorted from the taxpayers when the service "provider" is a government functionary. Even if the server is a philanthropist of independent wealth, somewhere someone paid for it.
TANSTAAFL.
Rick

 

[ckharlan66]

As a former sales person and also a former purchasing agent all I can tell you is to kill them with kindness.

Tell them that you are sorry you didn't get there business this time, but if there is anything you can do to help them in the future you would appreciate the opportunity to try to earn their business.

Speaking as a former purchasing agent it isn't always the price that makes the difference so if I choose not to buy from you this time, and you come back at me in a negative manner for my decision, you will most definately not get my business in the future. I have been known to test vendors (don't flame me on this I was being paid to get the best deal for my company) with how well they react to such situations and the service they are willing to give me in light of it. It sounds like by helping them assemble the gear, at a cost which is understandable, and not belittling them for thier decision you have set up the possiblity that they will shop with you in the future

Remember the rules:

1. The customer is always right.
2. If the customer is wrong refer to rule number 1

 

[anthem]

Genesis once bubbled...
as being 30-40% more expensive than where they bought the gear from?

Is it the BUYER's fault that the seller priced themself out of the market?

Nope.

It's not a factor of a seller pricing himself out of the market. Its a function of ethics. No one is saying that you shouldn't buy online. If you want to buy online - go right ahead. If you know that the store is beyond the markup percentage that you want to pay, don't go wasting their time. Go buy it online. Just don't exploit the hardworking dive shops that make a living by stocking, servicing and being their for people who patronize them. That additional cost above the online cost is what keeps that retail store/rent, employees that help you, and stock that you're trying on. Abusing that is what I was referring to.

 

[Rick Murchison]

ckharlan66 once bubbled...
As a former sales person and also a former purchasing agent all I can tell you is to kill them with kindness.

Tell them that you are sorry you didn't get there business this time, but if there is anything you can do to help them in the future you would appreciate the opportunity to try to earn their business.

Speaking as a former purchasing agent it isn't always the price that makes the difference so if I choose not to buy from you this time, and you come back at me in a negative manner for my decision, you will most definately not get my business in the future. I have been known to test venders (don't flame me on this I was being paid to get the best deal for my company) with how well they react to such situations and the service they are willing to give me in light of it. It sounds like by helping them assemble the gear, at a cost which is understandable, and not belittling them for thier decision you have set up the possiblity that they will shop with you in the future

Remember the rules:

1. The customer is always right.
2. If the customer is wrong refer to rule number 1

Apples and Oranges. A similar situation for a purchasing agent would be to spend a few hours with one vendor's pre-sales technical support researching the solution to a problem and then calling another vendor for the final order using the information you've just mined from the first vendor at great cost to him.
Would you do that?
Not I.
Rick (purchasing agent too)

 

[ckharlan66]

Rick,

I understand what you are saying and you have in fact made me realize that my reasoning was flawed and as I now see it I agree what the customer did would be unethical because they didn't inform him that he was in a bidding situation.

If I were researching a solution, as in the situation that you propose, I would contact all the vendors and tell them the situation and that I am opening the floor to suggestions and/or solutions. I would then allow them all to talk to me to work out what my needs and desires are and let them make thier proposals. I would them make my decision based on feasablity, price, service, prior experience with the vender, my perception of the quality of thier product, and frankly how hard they have worked to earn my business.

Once the decision has been made and the product is delievered I would go through the same process for which firm will provide future support. Just because you sold me an item doesn't necessarly mean I am going to hire you to continue to support it, this is what a lot of vendors don't seem to realize.

I agree that if I didn't inform them that there were other firms that I am concidering at the same time it would be unethical on my part.

Thank you for providing me with a different perspective. But my original suggestion on how the shop should react is still my suggestion.

Chad

 

[divedivedive!]

Genesis once bubbled...
Is it the BUYER's fault that the seller priced themself out of the market?

Nope.

I'm not in the gear retail aspect of diving so I'm not sure what the mark-up is, but it may be neither the buyer's nor the seller's fault - but rather, the manufacturer.

We can safely assume that LDSes sell at much lower bulk than on-line retailers (not just because of pricing but also nationwide reach), so they don't benefit from the cost economies of scale. Furthermore, well there's the whole murky area of grey market costs, which I don't know the facts for but in all likelihood bring down costs further for the online businesses. Finally there's the (industry-hurting, IMO) practice of demanding minimum pricing - the LDS might not agree to it, but he does after all stand the threat of losing the rights to retail should he not abide by it.

Of course the LDS can do much to protest, but in dropping one product line you'd probably just end up with another who are equally likely to screw you over.

What does this all mean for the buyer? Nothing, you're right, the wallet is what counts. I won't blame them at all for actually buying it online. What I WILL blame them for is having the cheek to go back, asking for help, and EXPECTING the LDS to supply this. They may have paid for the putting-together of gear, but it doesn't quite cover the time put in before that does it?

Unfortunately it's really hard to price this aspect of service, it's not quite consultancy at $25/hr. So the only way to regulate this is through personal ethics, which sadly, is just plain lacking in so many people. Which leads us to... I dunno, resignation?

(I would've put them through the sincere guilt trip, FWIW. Get some reward watching them squirm. But then again do people without consciences feel guilt?)