The Philosophy of Diver Training

[InTheDrink]

(Partial) retraction time: I posted late last night and after a bottle of particularly heady rioja - apologies for the particularly ill thought post.

I've seen enough OW courses in action to believe that the standard is too low. Watching beginners plow through the water like they're running a 400m race isn't a nice vista. And putting people in situations where they're very uncomfortable isn't nice or clever either and I think that the standards of PADI (and perhaps others, I don't know) is conducive to a crap experience and turning people off diving. But again, I think it's the minimum standards thing that's the problem and I think that most resort diving courses will suffer from this because of simple economics. People are unlikely to be repeat customers so retention for a particular resort is unlikely to be a huge factor (although I'm sure it still is a factor).

So apologies, I was way off last night. In fact it may well have been my evil twin posting.

I probably wouldn't give my children to any agency before checking out who was going to train them, what the syllabus was, how many hours, etc. and then attending some of the classes. I wouldn't want them to have a bad experience that put them off and I've already seen this happen with some friends and colleagues that I've introduced to diving. Being brought in at the absolute minimum level is really no level at all in which to feel comfortable.

I still maintain that there should be a middle ground, but no doubt that's all others here are arguing also. I think the topics covered in the PADI OW course are fine but it's just the time allotted to assimilating these that isn't. One would have thought that a simple tweaking of these hours and class ratios would have the desired effect but I guess the economics doesn't add up (especially in the resort context).

My buddy has just started a dive operation in Thailand with the express intent of providing a superior training and diving experience. He's got lots of nice kit in. A very nice and fast boat. The course and trips will cost a bit more than his competitors. He's trying to link up with some of the more upmarket hotels where price isn't such a big factor. However, he is expecting to be disappointed because time and again, people choose price over quality in the vast majority of scenarios.

I'd be happy to give my kids to a PADI instructor, or any other recreational agency instructor, as long as they put the time in to make sure my kids had properly assimilated the very basic skills.

J

 

[InTheDrink]

At the risk of sounding dramatic, for the sake of your children, reconsider this stance in the intervening years. My ex-wife did a resort course on our honeymoon in a few hours to prepare for our shore-entry dive in Kauai the next day. She bolted to the surface in a panic--luckily from a fairly shallow depth--and it was years before she dived again. After receiving proper instruction she turned out to be a good, comfortable diver; she was always a good swimmer and a good athlete.

I am a slow learner, no doubt, because I entrusted my current fiance to a highly-recommended 5-star PADI instructor, although at least this time she took a full certification course. He over-weighted her and put an ill-fitting bc on her in preparation for the kneeling skills on the first check-out dive. The bc managed to float up without her and stress her out. She aborted the dive and hasn't dived in the 10 years since. But you are correct to point out that they are both still living.

Excellent point and I was talking out my rear last night. I know various people who have had a bad experience because of the way they were introduced to diving. It doesn't need to be that way and I'd not let it happen that way again.

Glad your fiance/wife got back in the water in the end though.

J

 

[TechBlue]

I just had a conversation with a lady that is considering learning to dive, she likes the idea but openly admits that she may have some issues learning and would prefer a private class, she also said that she was quite horrified in the quality of resort dive centers and their "supervisory" capabilities.
She has taken the time to do some research and her concern was that although she may choose a course that requires supervision she is not confident that said supervision will provide her with the comfort and safety that the certification specifies either in the quality of supervision or equipment supplied for rental gear.
Her point of reference was PADI IDC centers on the Red Sea based on a documentary on German television.

 

[Hank49]

So where did NW Grateful Diver's post go?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So where did NW Grateful Diver's post go?

I requested that it be removed ... we're dealing with the matter privately.

Thanks for asking ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

If I had a son or daughter, I wouldn't recommend them to ANY instructor who taught to minimum standards ... even if those standards were set by SEI, UTD, GUE, or any other agency that purports to set high standards.

As soon as "minimum" becomes the mindset, that instructor would be out of consideration. I'd choose an instructor who's capable of thinking in terms of what the student needs to learn, how to teach it, the constraints of the teaching environment, and plans a class curriculum around the needs of the student rather than the standards of the agency.

Locally I can think of a half-dozen (at least) instructors who teach that way ... two of them happen to be PADI instructors. And yeah ... I'd trust my kid to either one of 'em.

Bob, my apologies but I'm somewhat confused over your statements:

"If I had a son or daughter, I wouldn't recommend them to ANY instructor who taught to minimum standards;" and

"Locally I can think of a half-dozen (at least) instructors who teach that way (plans a class curriculum around the needs of the student rather than the standards of the agency)... two of them happen to be PADI instructors. And yeah ... I'd trust my kid to either one of 'em"

are you suggesting that you would trust your children to instructors who each in violation of their Agency's Standards and who may not be covered by liability insurance?

 

[Walter]

Wayne, I can't speak for Bob, but I took him to mean he wants an instructor who adds to the standards, not someone who violates them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Exactly ... I'm not buying this argument that instructors are required to teach to the minimums. I know and work with too many instructors who do no such thing, and none of their agencies have a problem with it.

The "minimum standards" issue is more one of mindset than of practical application. And the best instructors are those who base their curriculum on the needs of the student, rather than the minimum requirements of the agency.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TCDiver1]

At the risk of sounding dramatic, for the sake of your children, reconsider this stance in the intervening years. My ex-wife did a resort course on our honeymoon in a few hours to prepare for our shore-entry dive in Kauai the next day. She bolted to the surface in a panic--luckily from a fairly shallow depth--and it was years before she dived again. After receiving proper instruction she turned out to be a good, comfortable diver; she was always a good swimmer and a good athlete.

Although I know plenty of people who certified through a resort course and are still avid divers today I think the one thing you will get almost universal agreement on is that the typical resort course is the worst possible option to take when learning how to dive. Unfortunately horror stories do abound and countless people will never dive again because of them.

I am a slow learner, no doubt, because I entrusted my current fiance to a highly-recommended 5-star PADI instructor, although at least this time she took a full certification course. He over-weighted her and put an ill-fitting bc on her in preparation for the kneeling skills on the first check-out dive. The bc managed to float up without her and stress her out. She aborted the dive and hasn't dived in the 10 years since. But you are correct to point out that they are both still living

PADI standards don't require an ill fitting BCD and overweighting. Quite the opposite actually. This guy simply wasn't doing his job but how can that happen, apparently on such a regular basis?

Teaching for a LDS/resort, you usually have a finite amount of gear to work with. Sometimes you simply don't enough gear to fit everyone perfectly, in fact you usually don't. So either you do the best you can do with what you have or you tell them to come back another day.

Some people can get past issues of this nature and some people can't. That's evidenced by all the people on here who say they had terrible OW training experiences and are still diving today. There is no more a one size fits all OW course than there is a one size fits all BCD.

 

[DCBC]

Wayne, I can't speak for Bob, but I took him to mean he wants an instructor who adds to the standards, not someone who violates them.

My point Walter is that a PADI instructor cannot add to the standards without violating them.