The straw that broke the divers back.

[lulubelle]

You mean, prior to reading this thread. :cool2:

"Hyperventilation and panic stress reactions are more likely to occur in the physically unfit. "

From "Medical Fitness for Diving" by Lawrence Martin, M.D. Copyright 1997. Numerous studies are cited at the bottom of the page.

Link HERE

This is an opinion paper, not a study. It represents the opinion of the physician writing it. None of the cited sources indicate that they have actually studied the frequency of panic in the physically unfit diving population versus the physically fit diving population. Most of the papers cited are papers specific to diabetes, asthma, epilepsy, etc.

I'd be interested in seeing if there is any actual study data showing that anxiety as an independent entity can be correlated with any particular body type or meaningful measure of fitness (strength, stress test, etc.)

Off to the ocean.

 

[idocsteve]

Did you read what you post? I am a crusty, grumpy, narrow minded, old fart, yet to think like this, much less express publicly it blows me away. Yeah, please DO dive solo.

There's another active thread on this board, featuring a video clip shot by a diver who descended to somewhere around 150 feet to save two foolhardy divers who were just about out of air. He saved them but at great risk to himself.

There's an article on Scuba Magazine.com in the "Lessons for Life" section about 2 divers who intentionally penetrated a wreck and got lost. One died, the other made it out, but the rescue diver is paralyzed for life as a result of trying to save them.

No thanks.

If I am diving with a stranger, and only thing preventing their death is myself, and attempting to save them puts my own life at significant risk, they are going to die.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

Sometimes you can tell if a diver has a propensity for panic. Since you're a diving instructor I would have expected you to know that. A diver who is nervous and prone to anxiety and panic will exhibit many signs- fidgeting, slowness in donning their rig, hesitation to get in the water, glazed look in their eyes, not paying attention to dive briefings..the list is almost endless.

And you base this on what ... something you read?

Sometimes you can see signs in people that will lead you to watch them carefully. Other times there are no prior indications before they just "snap" and bolt. I've personally dealt with both types.

And what can you tell us from your personal experience?

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to educate you on this.

It's comments like this that are the reason I called you an idiot ... because you insist on behaving like one.

And again the point I was making was that if you CANNOT tell who is more likely to panic then you're best bet would be the one who is the more fit of the two, because once again, more fit divers are less prone to panic than the unfit.

And again, the point I was making is that you're talking out your arse. Your "knowledge" comes from stuff you've read in the Internet. Mine comes from a couple thousand hours underwater dealing with these things.

Two different perspectives ... based on differences in how we came by what we choose to believe.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Bonairetrip]

If I knew now what I thought I knew at 200 dives I'd be a far better diver than I am.

A lot of wisdom in that one sentence.

 

[idocsteve]

And you base this on what ... something you read?
And what can you tell us from your personal experience?

You want me to tell you what I have learned from my diving experiences? I gotta tell you that's going to be way beyond the scope of this thread and it's going to take a heck of a lot of typing and I honestly don't have the time. Tell you what, you want to know about my diving experience go read my online logbook, I posted the link earlier.

Yes, I have learned a lot from reading...books and articles by medical professionals and respected divers, posts on internet message boards, and instruction manuals from various scuba certification courses I have taken.

It's comments like this that are the reason I called you an idiot ... because you insist on behaving like one.

You're calling me an idiot because name calling is all you got, Bob. It's obvious I got under your skin and your knee jerk reaction is to be insulting and attack the person and not the argument. No worries, it happens all the time on these boards. But it accomplishes nothing.

And again, the point I was making is that you're talking out your arse. Your "knowledge" comes from stuff you've read in the Internet. Mine comes from a couple thousand hours underwater dealing with these things.

As I said before, my knowledge comes from many places, books, manuals, articles, and yeah, "stuff I read on the internet" such as right here on ScubaBoard. This forum is an excellent way to build knowledge and learn from the experiences of others, and I think you're insulting everyone here by suggesting otherwise.

 

[idocsteve]

This is an opinion paper, not a study. It represents the opinion of the physician writing it. None of the cited sources indicate that they have actually studied the frequency of panic in the physically unfit diving population versus the physically fit diving population. Most of the papers cited are papers specific to diabetes, asthma, epilepsy, etc.

You're wrong on 3 counts

1-It's a book, not an "opinion paper" (whatever that is, I'm not familiar with that term).

2-To say that it reflects only the opinion of the MD who wrote it, is at the very least a bit of a stretch. That's like saying every nonfiction instructional book, possibly even including the PADI OW manual is "the opinion of the person who wrote it".

3-Out of 25 references cited, only 10 deal with diabetes, asthma, and epilepsy. That's not most, it's not even half.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You're calling me an idiot because name calling is all you got, Bob.

Among other things, I've got nearly eight years of posting scuba advice on this board. I'll leave it to the readers to decide which of us is more credible.

I'm calling you an idiot because you insist on behaving like one. I'm not the only one trying to tell you that ... perhaps you should stop talking and listen ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Web Monkey]

Since I am an accomplished NE Wreck diver with close to 200 dives under my belt and have completed several training courses from SSI Advanced to SDI solo diver, it's a reasonable conclusion that you don't know what you're talking about. But that was obvious from your very first post on this thread.

I don't know how to break the news to you, but 200 dives isn't going to impress Bob (or most of the other people here).

A couple of hundred dives is just getting into "probably won't die, and could be a good buddy if you worked at it" territory.

Terry

 

[idocsteve]

Among other things, I've got nearly eight years of posting scuba advice on this board. I'll leave it to the readers to decide which of us is more credible.

I'm calling you an idiot because you insist on behaving like one. I'm not the only one trying to tell you that ... perhaps you should stop talking and listen ...

By citing your own experience and "popularity" you beg the question by dealing with the person behind the argument and not the facts themselves. Using your logic, why should there ever be debates? Just look at the qualifications of the opposing sides and decide who is right based on that!

Newsflash for you Bob...the most experienced in an argument are not always the ones who are correct. And as an instructor it's beneath you to resort to continued name calling.

In addition to criticism, I've had members agree with me on this thread as well as thank me for several posts. I only bring it up because Bob seems to think that it's "majority rule" or something.

It's not.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... I'm not interested in risking my own life to save a stranger who should probably never have been in the water in the first place...
If I am diving with a stranger, and only thing preventing their death is myself, and attempting to save them puts my own life at significant risk, they are going to die.

I'll keep that in mind.
Just for the record, if you ever do anything terminally stupid, that is, get yourself into a potentially fatal situation where you should never have been in the first place, in the water or elsewhere, and I have a chance to save you, I will, if I possibly can.
Even if you're diving solo.
Even at "significant" risk to myself.
But that's just me...
Rick