This morning in Egypt ...

[scubaozy]

I think without proper root cause analysis, trying to offer whole sale solutions does not make sense. You can install most advanced fire fighting equipment if someone with a silly reason turns it off, or does not maintain, accidents like this will occur again.
Smoke detectors are useful when they work but mostly around the cabins. Real danger is around the engine room and the galley. I recommend everyone to do a personal escape plan around these two scenarios.

Liveaboard dive boats have crappy Home Depot smoke detectors with dead batteries. I’ve sailed on both.

The LoB in question did have engine room co2 extinguishing system. I can't say whether it was functional though. Hurricane afaik, did not have co2 system. As we saw in video, with the speed fire spread, only an automated system would help provided it was functional.

 

[cmas3]

News
Bodies of 3 English tourists recovered from Red Sea boat disaster - Egypt Independent

 

[boulderjohn]

I find it particularly amusing that travellers are perfectly willing to spend a substantial premium on 'Air Travel' level safety for 5-10 hours on either end of their trip but then happily accept 'sketchy dive boat' level of safety for the 150 hours in between.

Not only will some divers "happily accept a 'sketchy dive boat;" level of safety," there are some who take a perverse pride in accepting it.

When the Conception accident first occurred and the first hints of safety issues started to emerge on ScubaBoard, I was stunned by a few posts from people who had used the boats from that operator in the past. They did not put it this way exactly, but the posts amounted to "Sure the boat had sketchy accommodation and safety standards, but we southern California divers are not wimps like people in other parts of the world. We're damn tough, and we don't mind putting up with those kinds of things when we go diving."

 

[drjtprice]

There have been a lot of suggestions but wouldn't one approach be to target 'reforms' on the boat owners (as opposed to the countries)? It can be difficult to know what safety standards some boats have but if there were standards, or a way that companies can market safety then divers may be able to better vote with their pocketbooks.

 

[boulderjohn]

There have been a lot of suggestions but wouldn't one approach be to target 'reforms' on the boat owners (as opposed to the countries)? It can be difficult to know what safety standards some boats have but if there were standards, or a way that companies can market safety then divers may be able to better vote with their pocketbooks.

I think the problem can be seen clearly in post #183. In it, a survivor of the Red Sea Aggressor fire clearly shows that owners can put in whatever standards and rules they wish, but you have no way of knowing if the crew will actually follow through on those advertised policies. To save you the read, the trip was shortly after the Conception fire in California, the passengers selected the ship because of their concerns about safety, the boat and crew promised significant safety features and policies, and nearly all of those promises were broken immediately. They were lucky only one person died.

 

[BlueTrin]

l guess you could develop a standard like ISO, but its success would depend on customers wanting to pay more for it.

As you all know, scuba divers are notoriously generous and like to pay extra …

 

[boulderjohn]

As you all know, scuba divers are notoriously generous and like to pay extra …

I started a thread years ago about this. It started self-reflective. I knew I had to pay big bucks for some off the big gear in technical diving, and I contrasted that with my own tendency to try to save nickels and dimes on the less critical equipment. I then noted that in others, as well. I think the psychology is something along the lines of "Deep down I know I really can't afford this hobby, so I have to look for some way to save money. If both liveaboards take me to the same places, why not go with the cheaper one?"

 

[drrich2]

They did not put it this way exactly, but the posts amounted to "Sure the boat had sketchy accommodation and safety standards, but we southern California divers are not wimps like people in other parts of the world. We're damn tough, and we don't mind putting up with those kinds of things when we go diving."

I think threads analyzing that accident and related matters may have helped moved awareness along. I realize we don't live in a perfect world, and while I prefer a good level of safety, there's a point of diminishing returns where putting more money and more regulation in gets onerous.

But some things became evident in the wake of all that. Beforehand, I hadn't realized liveaboard fires getting out of control happened as often as we hear about.

I didn't know how fast a fire can spread, how extremely superheated the air can quickly get, and how toxic. Before, I might've thought someone could wrap a sheet around himself and run through a flaming hallway, holding his breath and coming out with 1st and 2nd degree burns but alive. I now know by the time a passenger becomes aware of the fire, conditions in that hallway may be unsurvivable.

I didn't know fire alarm systems were allegedly sometimes inadequate or unreliable, or that per one or more posts here alternate route escape hatches (if there is one) are sometimes blocked on the outside by heavy things. Or that in U.S. waters there was supposed to be a roving watch, or the reasons why that was so.

I'm still not as gung ho as some, but I pay more attention to alternate escape route offerings. We may never all agree on where to draw the 'safe enough' line, but I think more people have been given food for thought.

 

[Joneill]

I think threads analyzing that accident and related matters may have helped moved awareness along. I realize we don't live in a perfect world, and while I prefer a good level of safety, there's a point of diminishing returns where putting more money and more regulation in gets onerous.

But some things became evident in the wake of all that. Beforehand, I hadn't realized liveaboard fires getting out of control happened as often as we hear about.

I didn't know how fast a fire can spread, how extremely superheated the air can quickly get, and how toxic. Before, I might've thought someone could wrap a sheet around himself and run through a flaming hallway, holding his breath and coming out with 1st and 2nd degree burns but alive. I now know by the time a passenger becomes aware of the fire, conditions in that hallway may be unsurvivable.

I didn't know fire alarm systems were allegedly sometimes inadequate or unreliable, or that per one or more posts here alternate route escape hatches (if there is one) are sometimes blocked on the outside by heavy things. Or that in U.S. waters there was supposed to be a roving watch, or the reasons why that was so.

I'm still not as gung ho as some, but I pay more attention to alternate escape route offerings. We may never all agree on where to draw the 'safe enough' line, but I think more people have been given food for thought.

Upper deck/main deck cabin only for me or I’ll pass/pick a later trip - no way I’m sleeping in a lower deck/below the water line cabin.

On my first liveaboard (Blue Manta), I could open my cabin door and jump right over the rail and I’d be in the water. I brought CO and smoke detectors with me and had a ditch bag with a 6 Ft SMB and PLB in canister attached on my nightstand. I also moved the life jacket there as well.

The first thing I did when I got onboard was to walk the entire boat to see where everything was and that all escape routes were functioning/clear (they were). There is never a 100% guarantee that things will all work out, but I figure I’ll at least try to maximize my chances by taking a few easy steps.

 

[wgw04024]

Upper deck/main deck cabin only for me or I’ll pass/pick a later trip - no way I’m sleeping in a lower deck/below the water line cabin.

If I've only learned one thing from all these accidents the last few years, this is it if I ever get on a Liveaboard for sure....