Thoughts on Bounce Dives

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I guess I'm too old, I learned when NDL limits was 190' and recreational limits were yet to be determined. I have been on deep bounce dives for a number of reasons, and never have encouraged anyone to do that type of dive. I feel that if someone wants to bounce dive, they should know what the hell they are doing, because it gets more dangerous the deeper and longer you go.

Oh yeah, the O2 ATA is the least of your worries at 220', at least is has been for me, so far.


Bob
 
PPO2 Exceptional Exposure Table

We removed the Exceptional Exposure Oxygen tables from the NOAA diving manual 4th editon because there was fear that if the general public saw them printed that they might take it as an endorsement to use them.

The NOAA exceptional exposure limits are set for extreme emergencies only and are not for routine use. IE: should be used for life saving only.

These are for a working dive meaning with light exertion. Remember that there are a variety of factors that come into oxygen toxicity, and crossing the 1.6 atm 45min line does not guarantee convulsion, it also does not guarantee it won't.

NOAA OXYGEN
EXCEPTIONAL EXPOSURE LIMITS

PO2 Minutes

2.8 5
2.4 10
2.0 30
1.9 45
1.8 60
1.7 75
1.6 120
1.5 150
1.4 160
1.3 240

As you can see the exceptional times allow you a fairly large margin to use this method for an "escape." The table is NOT linear. Note that exceptional exposures are DANGEROUS and can only be done once in a day. . .

Joel Silversein
Elevation of arterial CO2 levels during exertion increases the risk of cerebral oxygen toxicity. However it is plausible that going beyond oxygen exposure limits during resting decompression is less hazardous than equivalent excursions when exercising at deep depths.
 
I'm working on a name for the psychological factor I think is in play here. Perhaps it already exists and someone can provide it. For now I will call it "Best I've Seen" Syndrome.

It happens when people with limited experience determine, possibly accurately, that either they or someone they know is the best they have ever seen at some activity. They then conclude that the person in question must therefore be among the best there is. I saw that when I sponsored a high school chess club, and a new player joined, complete with his entourage declaring him to be one of the chess world's greatest players. He was actually a rank beginner who could be destroyed by the weakest player in the club. A recent scuba example is Dr. Guy Garman, who perished after an attempt at a record deep dive, after which the web site of the local divers promoting the attempt said that "he knew more about technical diving than anyone on the planet." That statement was patently absurd--he was a relative beginner. He probably did, however, know more about technical diving than any of his friends on that Caribbean Island, which led both him and those friends to assume he had to know more than the rest of the world as well.

Scuba DMs and instructors who do all their diving on tropical resorts may accurately determine they are among the best divers in those waters, and they then go on to assume that they are also among the best in the world. They know that other divers, divers who must be at about their skill level, go to 200-300 feet with some frequency. Since they have never been anywhere close to the training those divers endure before being certified to do that, they cannot even imagine it. They consequently completely underestimate the dangers and overestimate their ability to deal with them.

Hi Boulderjohn,

I don't know what to call the psychological factor that your are writing about, but your diagnosis is right-on.

I am not an experienced tech diver nor a dive professional. However, I was a Master Mariner who worked in the Merchant Marine. I skippered fishing boats, tug boats, and many other boats. I attended a Merchant Marine Academy. From Alaska to the Gulf Coast, the Atlantic too, and many points between.

I may not able to comment on the dive professional's attitude from a dive professional perspective, but I can comment on the capabilities of the vessel operators whose boats I have dived from. Many of them consider themselves to be exceptional skippers, but they gained their sea time by crewing a vessel that leaves the dock in good weather, and goes a few miles to sea and moors on a well known dive spot, usually with a permanent mooring.

Questions, can they:

Navigate to an Island 240 nm to sea with no GPS--no way.

Find a fuel dock in a harbor that they have never visited before at night in 0/0 visibility--no way (no GPS).

Navigate dangerous reefs with up to 6 knots of current--no way.

Find a safe anchorage in 30 to 50 knots of howling wind and 20' seas--no way.

Perform filter changes in 20 foot seas and know what to do with snot clogged filters (diesel fuel supports the growth of a snot like fungus which clogs filters--if you have a fuel tank full of snot, you had better clean those filters as you are going to be changing lots of them). The fact that you have untreated old fuel is usually not known until you are in rough seas.

How many of these skippers have entered a harbor in fog with no radar, no GPS, nor Loran C?

Other than that, they are excellent mariners.

I have noticed some cocky attitudes regarding their diving capabilities, but I don't have the training or experience to ascertain if they don't know what they don't know.

Bounce dive to 200 fsw with recreational training and gear? Not me!

markm

PS: I have met some blue-water sailors in the dive industry--but they are few and far between.
 
. . .Ultimately, each person who ventures out must make his or her own decisions about how far to go and what point to turn back. There's an old saying among prospectors who comb the hills for gold here in the American West: "Gold is where you find it". You can say the same about adventure ["Adventure is where you find it"]. For that matter, you can say it about risk, about death, and about being acutely alive. . . --from Introduction, Last Breath: Cautionary Tales From The Limits of Human Endurance by Peter Stark.
 
I once wanted to do a bounce dive, lucky me my Instructor never allowed me, it was to look at a small wreck, not for personal records or other dump ego thing, this was a 50m dive, I eventually backed out of that bad idea, I know it is doable, still it is a bad idea, to look only for 4 min or less is not worth it, that is why I wait till I get into tec courses and spend the right time at the wrecks, a lot less stressful and safer.

i
 
You can reach 120mph by leaving off a tall building... or you could do the same whilst lounging back in a comfortable seat, sipping a martini, in the first-class compartment on a high speed train. The same logic applies on bounce dives versus properly planned and equipped technical dives, for which you are appropriately trained and experienced. Thrill-seeking by ignorance, within dive parameters that are actually considered hum-drum by those who've committed to getting the right training... seems the dumbest expression of Darwin's Law you could make.
 
threat read and noted.....opinions noted.
 
Thrill-seeking by ignorance, within dive parameters that are actually considered hum-drum by those who've committed to getting the right training... seems the dumbest expression of Darwin's Law you could make.
Sorry, Doc Deep was on Darwin's speed dial :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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