Tipping

[diver0008]

...constant threat...

You are very well-versed in hyperbole.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes, hate is a strong word. But I do wonder how the low wage/tipping thing took off originally in the U.S.
O love my native U.S., but hate that I have paid taxes to a place I have had no official contact with (other than very often a tourist/diver) for over 40 years. But that's very old news. No country is perfect.
I almost always tip $10 per tank to the DM.

 

[diver0008]

Yes, hate is a strong word. But I do wonder how the low wage/tipping thing took off originally in the U.S.
O love my native U.S., but hate that I have paid taxes to a place I have had no official contact with (other than very often a tourist/diver) for over 40 years. But that's old news.

In Canada too there is a lower minimum wage for jobs that get tips. In my province, tips are taxable at a set but arbitrary rate in real terms.

This thread has got me thinking however. I wonder if the whole tipping thing is a bit archaic at this point.

I suppose ideally it encourages high levels of service, but having become basically mandatory and even the rates pretty much set, expectations to tip for even nominally acceptable service are now normal.

In the realm of diving, the main beneficiaries of tipping are the divemasters. As it has been customary for a long time, if tipping were to be dissuaded, DM's would have to be paid more by the dive op, and thus consequently diving rates to the customers would go up. It may be worked out as a zero-sum change to the customers in general, where some divers would be paying either more or less than they would otherwise.

Some things, even when broke, aren't worth the repair.

 

[J322Y]

I wonder if the whole tipping thing is a bit archaic at this point.

I think it is. I prefer a model where no tip is expected, servers are paid more, and leaving a few bucks is a show of appreciation for exceptional service.

 

[CPrincess]

Well that took a weird turn for a little bit....
But back on topic, it did throw me a bit when last summer on a non-scuba trip someone said they tip the housekeeping daily. It made me wonder: is the tip for the previous days work or to bribe today's worker to do a good job? If it was for yesterday, how do you know they got the tip as opposed to today's staff on the schedule? And when the staff at the front desk and for housekeeping all seemed to be family that owned the hotel it began to feel a little like a service charge on top of the room fee.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I suppose the crux of the issue is does one tip according to their standards or those of others.

I don't see anything wrong with either model.

I don't see the logic in tipping people who live in the economy of Country X according to a custom that arose out of the idiosyncrasies of the economy in Country Y. As for Country Y's idiosyncrasies, what I have in mind are the US laws that others have already pointed out that lead to customers being bullied into directly making up a portion of what would otherwise be the minimum wage paid to so-called (by the IRS) "tipped employees." If not for the "tipped employee" exception to the minimum wage laws, I don't think tipping would have reached the extreme in the US that it has, where if a customer doesn't tip 20% he's deemed to be refusing to play by the rules of the game and draws the wrath of the tipped employee.

In previous threads, I have seen the argument "when I'm in a country full of people less fortunate than I am, I give everyone an American-sized tip because they need it." My response is that using tipping as a form of charity perverts the system. A tip should be used to reward exceptional service--above and beyond the call of duty--and I don't think anyone anywhere in the world would disagree with that, regardless of the extent of the practice of tipping in their home country. Charity, on the other hand, is something different. I wholeheartedly encourage people to donate money, time, gifts, or whatever to people who are less fortunate than they are. There are all kinds of charitable organizations in the countries we divers visit to which one could make a donation.

 

[diver0008]

Well that took a weird turn for a little bit....
But back on topic, it did throw me a bit when last summer on a non-scuba trip someone said they tip the housekeeping daily. It made me wonder: is the tip for the previous days work or to bribe today's worker to do a good job? If it was for yesterday, how do you know they got the tip as opposed to today's staff on the schedule? And when the staff at the front desk and for housekeeping all seemed to be family that owned the hotel it began to feel a little like a service charge on top of the room fee.

Clearly the issue has many variables, and in some cases, made evident in this thread, causes some considerable distress.

As a simple man, looking to lead a simple life, I think it might be a nice exhale for everyone, everywhere if tipping faded away.

But it's always nice to get one (especially when you don't expect it).

 

[TMHeimer]

Agree with last 3 posts. I directly tip the DM on charters, figuring (at least from what I've read here and seen myself), they usually get no pay and (may) "dive for free". I don't know about other boat crew--assume the Captain gets paid and that any other non-DM crew probably do because they don't even get to "dive free". So I know my tip is going to the right place.

 

[Scubamat]

I live in a country where tipping isn't expected(Australia). Most establishments where you might expect to tip normally have 'tip' jars raising money for some charity, I would normally drop my change in if paying cash. Baring exceptional service I wouldn't tip in my country. I visit Bali for most of my diving where I've been lead to believe tipping isn't expected but is appreciated. I've tip for very/good service exceptional service both diving and hospitality. I believe in Indonesia (but could be just bali) a service fee is added to the cost of most hospitality related service.

If I visit the USA I will tip accordingly but like other I do disagree with what tipping has developed into over there. Really what tipping has turned into in some parts of services industry is the offloading of what are management risks(do I have enough customers to cover wages for this shift) and decisions (how much should I pay my staff) onto low level employees and customers. Tips should be a bonus not their wage but I understand that is how it is now in the USA.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes. And don't forget Canada is the same.