To those considering an OW class...

[Thalassamania]

A quote from SFC Coe, Bravo team leader 85th USAFAD 7th army Europe 1982. "95% of people 95% of the time think they can do it better or are smarter the 95% of the rest of us."

That’s impressive phrasing, esp. for an enlisted artilleryman, but semantically empty. What is it supposed to mean? That 5% of the people know far more than they other 95%? I’d believe that. That 5% of the time the other 95% get it right? Doubtful, as we know truth is one of the first victims of an electoral process.

Pretty soon we'll all sound like geezers sitting on our porch in rockers, wheezing "well hell, back in MY day...a scuba course was a damned SCUBA course!"...and of course we'll be completely correct, utterly ignored, and no one will give a damn...

That’s their loss. Don’t know about you, but I have no rocker, no porch and no wheeze. I continue to train scuba divers that evidence the fact that a scuba course can be a damned SCUBA course!

For every single instructor who sifts through all this talk and improves the way he/she teaches a little for the better, how many students are effected?

I guess what I'm getting at is, we don't need to too concerned with numbers. One is worth the effort. I don't know about you but I'm not trying to save the world, the industry or even an agency. I don't care about the industry or the agencies. I'm happy with putting a different point of view out there and others can take it anyway they want.

RAmen to that.

 

[kneptoon]

I am ambivalent on this subject. My own NAUI/YMCA Basic Scuba course (1962) took 6 weeks and was taught from the US Navy dive manual. One side of me thinks classes should be longer, rigorous and more comprehensive. Through the intervening years I have through my enthusiasm for the sport, introduced many friends to SUCBA. I have often retaken (or refreshed) in basic classes with student/friends to see what they were learning (or missing). A lot is missing. On the other hand, many of these new students/friends probably wouldn't have opted for a six week course. I tell them they are just woefully scratching the surface, be careful, learn more. All of them are still diving, incident free and continuing their education. Yes it is incredibly irritating watching floundering novices. But from my read of Incidents & Accidents, the old and bold seem to suffer more than novices. Then there is the whole fitness to dive issue, another time, another post.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I am ambivalent on this subject. My own NAUI/YMCA Basic Scuba course (1962) took 6 weeks and was taught from the US Navy dive manual. One side of me thinks classes should be longer, rigorous and more comprehensive. Through the intervening years I have through my enthusiasm for the sport, introduced many friends to SUCBA. I have often retaken (or refreshed) in basic classes with student/friends to see what they were learning (or missing). A lot is missing. On the other hand, many of these new students/friends probably wouldn't have opted for a six week course. I tell them they are just woefully scratching the surface, be careful, learn more. All of them are still diving, incident free and continuing their education. Yes it is incredibly irritating watching floundering novices. But from my read of Incidents & Accidents, the old and bold seem to suffer more than novices. Then there is the whole fitness to dive issue, another time, another post.

For a course to be "longer" or more comprehensive it doesn't necessarily mean "harder". I found that a more complete course made it easier for everbody involved.

Also, if you the DAN or BSAC accident reports you see that buoyancy control problems are reported in a large percentage (usually over 60%) of the dives that result in injury. the last couple of DAN reports I've seen didn't report this "statistic" for injuries but only fatalities. The percentage is lower but still significan't.

The summary part of the report usually is clear about identifying poor skills and lack of familiarity with equipment as major contributors.

There are several groups that seem to be "higher risk" but the big one is usually divers with little training and/or little recent experience which just reinforces the above points.

Poor skills do result in problems. In the vast majority of cases the problems just ruin a dive and don't result in injury. Unfortunately there is no reporting on "near misses" but we get to see plenty of them in the water. The ones that don't result in injury seem more by luck than by design.

Not that it should be any surprise that the divers who dive poorly get hurt more.

BTW, when I was still teaching, a brief review of the DAN report and going over these numbers was part of my class.

 

[Thalassamania]

I am ambivalent on this subject. My own NAUI/YMCA Basic Scuba course (1962) took 6 weeks and was taught from the US Navy dive manual. One side of me thinks classes should be longer, rigorous and more comprehensive. Through the intervening years I have through my enthusiasm for the sport, introduced many friends to SUCBA. I have often retaken (or refreshed) in basic classes with student/friends to see what they were learning (or missing). A lot is missing. On the other hand, many of these new students/friends probably wouldn't have opted for a six week course. I tell them they are just woefully scratching the surface, be careful, learn more. All of them are still diving, incident free and continuing their education. Yes it is incredibly irritating watching floundering novices. But from my read of Incidents & Accidents, the old and bold seem to suffer more than novices. Then there is the whole fitness to dive issue, another time, another post.

I understand your ambivalence. What diving really needs is a multi-tiered system that has a defined way to meet all sorts of different needs. The first item should be region, equipment and depth certifications. But that would shatter the “Professional” illusion that the industry tries to hide behind, I hardly think that an instructor “career” that on average lasts between two and three years and that pays about the same as fast food service is a “profession.” Why do golf pros and tennis pros or aerobic dance leaders make more than diving instructors? Why is there no real “hierarchy” of Diving Instructors beyond the pyramid scheme of instructor training? Who would benefit and who would be hurt by a system offered real, professional positions to Dive Instructors with real pay scales that could permit living in a resort area and raising a family? Not the folks who lowered the minimum age from 21 to 18, not the Course Directors at the “Five Star Professional Development Centers” who when faced with criticism of their product shrug and say, “No worry, he won’t be teaching next year.” Yuck!

 

[Doc Intrepid]

You are quite right. I wish you luck in reforming the system.

 

[Thalassamania]

You are quite right. I wish you luck in reforming the system.

At this stage my only role is to mention that the emperor is buck nek'd. Eventually someone will start an agency with a national or international perspective and a set of standards that I'd be happy with and then I may spend some time helping it along, but I'm not holding my breath ... besides, I've a ten year old to keep me busy.

 

[Azza]

Eventually someone will start an agency with a national or international perspective and a set of standards that I'd be happy with and then I may spend some time helping it along, but I'm not holding my breath ... .

BSAC doesn't do this for you?

 

[Thalassamania]

BSAC doesn't do this for you?

No not really. The club system, where practiced well, is a great system and I suspect that internet sales of scuba equipment will eventually drive today's LDS to become a "for profit" dive club, not unlike a tennis, golf or excercise club. But face it, I'm not a Brit, I'm more than 200 years away from any real link to the Brits (except for our Roosevelt/Churchill "special relationship") and if I had to make that kind of jump I'd just go CMAS (I am 3 Star CMAS Instructor) and play it by ear. I have little or no need for a certifying agency anyway, and there are other (new) things on the horizon. I might consider trying the "for profit" club approach when we move to the big island, don't know if it'd be worth the trouble, but maybe there's a market for a bed/breakfast/boat/gear/instruction at any level, time share kind of deal. Six divers at a time (or seven with an instructor, AI or DM). Something to think about.

 

[kneptoon]

I am not implying any relaxation of skill requirement. I am amazed at the sheer luck of novices as well as the hubris of some experienced divers. I often dive with newbies, I try to help them sharpen their new found skills and I find it reeducates me to the basics, makes me more cautious. But I don't suggest to them that diving with a more experienced diver is a substitute for continuing with a formal course. I am sure there are many close calls unreported due to novice inexperience.

 

[Thalassamania]

But I don't suggest to them that diving with a more experienced diver is a substitute for continuing with a formal course. I am sure there are many close calls unreported due to novice inexperience.

Maybe, but I know that I owe far more to "more experienced divers" than to anyone wearing an "Instructor" patch.