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To those considering an OW class...

Discussion in 'New Divers and Those Considering Diving' started by loosebits, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    I don't know why I'm even responding to this thread as it is so old but to address the last poster. In my OW classes you are not just demonstrating kick styles. I am using that time to teach you buddy skills, pace, and proper skin diving techniques as a buddy team. I also use that to teach you mask clearing and mask removal and replacement. In addition I am assessing your fitness to take my course, your attitude towards safety, and your attention to instructions. I DO NOT train "resort divers" to dive with DM's or guides. Those who want to do that need to find another instructor.

    I train divers to dive so that I would trust them with my life or more importantly with my kids life in the water. It is NOT up to the DM to decide who is safe in the water or capable. DM's and guides doing that have killed or injured people with too aggressive profiles, poor planning, and just plain arrogance. The last line of your paragraph directly contradicts your previous assertions. Individuals cannot know their own limits/capabilities if they have received less than adequate training in how to assess those items. The diver who relies on a DM or Guide to decide how much weight they use is someone I don't want to dive with. As is the one who does not know if a site is beyond their abilities or cannot rescue me in the event of an emergency.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  2. ZenDiver.3D

    ZenDiver.3D Rejecting Reality ScubaBoard Sponsor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Kuwait, but home is Savannah, Georgia
    Wow, I am sure feeling sorry for you. A- you should have been thouroughly taught how to determine your weight and do a buoyancy check before you ever got to a pond/lake/quarry/sea. B- your course sounds hurry up and get out of my face style by the instructor. C- this would never have happened on my course. I have my guys know their Proer pool weight and then check their sea wieght once there. They adjust quite easily and are not over or underweighted. You should have too.

    OK where was the instructor? Because the DM better not have been leading or instructing any part of dive when all required skills have not been performed already.
    You should have had the proper weight. NOT another student. That was a training problem for Both of you.

    Please don't give up on this sport. Check around and find another shop/instructor to help you. Many are more than willing to help. Usually if they do, that diver will be loyal to them, so all win. Please go somewhere else. You have been given inadequate and dangerous instruction, based on what you've told us.

    You were also shafted. And the sheer amount of weight there is staggering! Didn't you do a buoyancy test ANywhere? Or did he just want rocks? Find someone else. Now. And they are there, just look more. Diving is definitely worth the effort.

    Yep, exactly what you said. I don't have to take that up now, thanks Jim.
    Why do people think the DM is their personal babysitter/guardian angel? why do they think they should have to have actual skills or sense? Are there really that many People out there content to be inept and blame othersfor it or demand that others fix it? Jeez.
    And you're right, there are many dm's not capable, but what about the sharp great dm's these people are endangering by expecting the dm to save/wipe their butts?
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  3. orm

    orm Instructor, Scuba

    Admittedly I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else has said.

    OW course in 2 days?
    I'm not sure where this has come from as the Open Water course hasn't changed that much in the 14 years since I did mine. There have been skills that have been omitted or made optional - Buddy Breathing as an example, but the overall length of the course may have been shortened a little bit with the wider availability of materials to study at home, but when I started teaching ten years ago it was possible to rush a course out in 3 days. Not much has changed.

    The big change
    What has changed is the availability of the easier entry courses like DSD and Scubadiver. This has come from the fact that people have shorter amounts of time to donate to taking a course, by giving a shorter 2 day Scubadiver course, these people can be brought into the diving fold by giving vital instruction in areas that count... it's basically the first half of the open water course.

    Scubadiver is dangerous as they don't learn all of the OW course?
    The OW course certifies divers to go and dive with a trained buddy on a dive that is viable given their current level of training and experience.

    In reality the OW divers are resort divers and probably only dive once or twice a year, in a resort in calm clear seas, with professional dive leaders, either Instructors or Divemasters.

    If you work in the dive industry and come across the average 'resort diver' you see a lot of their 4 day OW knowledge pretty much forgotten, forcing you to go over the key points again. So why deny this market though long 4 day courses when the divers won't be diving in the situations that they have been trained for?

    Surely it's safety fist and money second?
    Wel yes, safety isn't compromised, but the availability is greatly increased. With more divers coming into the industry there is more gear bought, services hired, dive centres used, DMs done, IDCs taken, it all injects money into the diving system that pays for greater equipment development and researched, which ultimately make our sport that much more safer.

    Again sorry if I've repeated anything.

  4. orm

    orm Instructor, Scuba

    Do'h! Just seen that this was posted last year!
  5. kaerius

    kaerius Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Sweden
    The LDS I work for right now uses free pool/boat tries with just the octo and mask at the surface to draw in people to do discover scuba diving, which is then used to draw in people for more dives(optional extra DSD dives) or courses. The OW course is the by now common 3 day affair, but we usually let the people doing the courses join us on the intro dives for free for a few extra dives where they can work on things like finetuning their buoyancy(intros in the morning, course dives in the afternoon). We've got a guy who did his OW+AOW with us who's got about 15-16 dives done on the course, and now he's doing EFR and then rescue as well.
  6. davidctomlinson

    davidctomlinson Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: manila
    Chit, I thought it was normal to feel scared and unsure of myself when I first started diving. I only panicked about 8 times on my first dive.

    I took the Discover Dive (a few hours and a walk-in), PADI online course (it took a week) , and PADI OWD (3 day weekend with about 4-6 hours in the pool).

    Since then, AOWD, Nitrox, Deep Diving courses/certifications, and I now have about 25 dives in. However, I look at all the ways a diver can die, from reading forums, accident reports, news, etc., and I know I'm not ready for some of them. So, I dive with a dive master or instructor on all of my dives. It helps that I often dive with my boss (instructor level, 20+ years, 1200+ dives) and other experienced divers.

    I now feel that I can survive in waters < 30 meters, and I'm OK in waters < 40 meters, but it's all a matter of experience. What to do in strong down/up currents, low air conditions, etc. I don't know that a longer OWD course would help.
  7. knowone

    knowone Regular of the Pub

    I thought all those forums etc, were to look at all the ways a diver can dive.

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