Tobermory - Diving Fatality

[cottage]

I have never been on the Arabia, but keep hearing about a current.. Just how much of a current is there?
Just curious.

Fascinating thread????

I think that the issue is getting a bit distorted.

I have been diving for 35 years, have over 2000 dives and have lost count of the number of dives on the Arabia. Yes. There is ocassionally a current on the Arabia. I'd guess that I have experienced a current on 1 in 20 dives and almost all of those currents were VERY mild. By Brockville standards, you be a major wimp even to call the Arabia current "a current".

There may indeed be a few incidents in Tobermory but they have excellent facilities to deal with any eventuality. Fathom Five can respond very quicky with a fast evacuation boat. The local medical centre has a hyperbaric chamber and they have one of the leading hyperbaric doctors in Canada. What other location can boast about these facilites?

Come on guys (and Gals). Incidents happen. People have bad days. Let's not get carried away!

 

[d33ps1x]

Are people getting carried away?

There have been a lot of deaths on the Arabia but that, much like the Marsh in Kingston, is mostly because it is a very popular wreck that entices people who shouldn't be in 110 feet of lakewater to go visit her. We often forget that diving up here most days is considered extreme diving elsewhere in the world. It's dark, it's cold, and the gear considerations make it doubly hard. Throw in a low vis day with the narcosis of 110 feet, a single 80 cylinder with a crap fill, and a not so experienced diver and you have a very potent recipe for disaster time and again. It's no wonder so many people die on the thing.

People talk about having advanced certification. Big deal. At least one agency we all know of will allow a diver to immediately after completing your 4 open water dives do your 5 "advanced" dives right away. So now you have a diver with a grand total of 11 dives (only 1 below 60 feet) able to do the Arabia and other wrecks in that range. That is ill equipped. It takes time to develop the problem solving and gas management abilities needed to handle an issue at this depth. That's it. You just need time in the water that a lot of people don't have before going there.

Advanced certification is an ill concieved cash grab that is fed buy a dive shop and charter industry that enjoys the $250 or so plus fills plus equipment rentals plus charters to take you on 5 guided dives over two days with little or no in class time spent. It's probably the only course that shops make a clear cut GOOD profit on and it does nothing for the diver except allow them to step onto a boat and do an "advanced" dive that they probably shouldn't be doing. The arguement is that it is guided time in the water doing things you normally wouldn't do on your own for experience. True. But if you think you are at your safest and about to become an advanced diver by being jammed in the water with 5 or 6 other students and 1 instructor and 1 dm at 100 feet for one dive you are kidding yourself. It leaves you completely lacking to do a wreck in the 110 foot range.

The remainder of those deaths are as someone mentioned earlier,"old guy issues", due to health pre-conditions or poor health in general. Luckily the majority of deaths in the water seem to be due to poor health according to DAN reports. I mean luckily because it is not a diving related issue per say. The same things arguably could have happened playing hockey or some other sport. However, the sooner training agencies stop pushing the idea that diving is NOT a sport and doesn't require good health and fitness the sooner we will stop seeing so many deaths like heart attacks while diving.

I'm not talking about simply overweight. I am talking about healthy. There IS a difference. Big people can have the heart, lungs and muscle to handle a situation that a rake thin dude may not because he has a low cardio tolerance, precondition , etc. Everything is hunky dory until there IS a current or something and then these poor folks little couch potato hearts pop like a champagne cork after the championship game.

At the end of the day it is really up to the diver if they can and should do the dive. Let's face it. A lot of people get into diving because they consider it an extreme sport and WANT to push their boundaries and take risks. Others prefer getting all the training they can to offset the risk factors. The first group have just as much right and just as valid a reason as the second and as long as their attitude and outlook don't endanger the latter half then what is the big deal. They pay their insurance and taxes too. I personally like the training and have attempted to prepare myself as best I can physically, skillwise, knowledgewise and equipmentwise. Thats it really. I'm just not a risk taker and I picture myself dying an angry little (dirty) old man some far away day.

Just one vocal opinion. Others may and will vary.

 

[Groundhog246]

Short of requiring al divers to have an annual physical, including stress testing and preventing those who have any heart or other issues from diving, there's no way to prevent such deaths. I think they do something like that for pilots (may not be yearly) and even then there have been pilots have a heart attack, etc while flying causing their own and others deaths. We accept such risks when we undertake such activities.
To suggest or even hint that a death from a pre-existing medical condition might be the fault of a shop or charter operator is wrong.

 

[FreeFloat]

To suggest or even hint that a death from a pre-existing medical condition might be the fault of a shop or charter operator is wrong.

I don't think that's what he was suggesting at all. I think he was trying to say that divers ought to be self-policing as far as fitness to dive. Unfortunately, the dive industry as a whole is, IMHO, to blame, for presenting diving as a cheap safe thrill for the masses.

 

[d33ps1x]

Thanks freefloat. Groundhog. Here is the short version for you since I can get a little long winded at times:

No one has a gun to your head. Do the dive if you want just don't endanger others in the process. Fullstop.

 

[CDN ff]

Interesting discussion... I'll skip the fitness portion of the discussion- we discuss it ad nauseum at work: heart attacks kill more firefighters than fires, but you just can't make a guy go to the gym. Those of us that are fit (and thankfully, there are more and more every day), are fit out of choice, not because of mandated fit-testing.
As to the other part, let me throw in a hypothetical question for further fuel:
Ask most newly-certified AOW divers this question: if you have your choice between two IDENTICAL dive sites (i.e. wrecks), one in 45 feet of water, one in 100 feet of water, on which one would you prefer to dive?
7 out of 10 seem to go for the deep dive. If you ask them their reason, they don't really have one. If you point out to them that they will get twice as much bottom time to tour the shallower wreck, they look confused.

I think that points to what d33p was saying about adventure sports approaches. Yes, there is a thrill to diving. But it shouldn't be the thrill of risking your life. The thrill of conquering a new sport, a new skill... the thrill of accessing a new medium that was previously unavailable... even the thrill of going someplace that you know very few people have ever been. THOSE are good reasons....

 

[Groundhog246]

FWIW d33ps1x, I must have been typing while you were and I was not responding to your post, in fact I agree with what you're saying. I DON'T want more government involvment. And I do my best to make sure I am fit to dive (having reached an age, I had a full physical this spring). I do my best to make sure both my buddy and I survive. A heart attack, even fairly major might be survivable sitting at home, or on the dock, less survivable an hour out in the lake (travel time while non-professionals provide CPR), NOT survivable at depth. Of course, it's likely not survivable at 110kmh on the 401 either.
If anyone with a health condition either doesn't know about it, or doesn't reveal it, it's no one else's fault. Unfortunately, it's still a "diving death" and gives people the impression that it's a dangerous sport. The fact that more people die bowling (again, usually a heart attack) than diving is completely lost on them. One should not blame the bowling alley, the LDS or the charter boat.

 

[Groundhog246]

Ask most certified AOW divers this question: if you have your choice between two IDENTICAL dive sites (i.e. wrecks), one in 45 feet of water, one in 100 feet of water, on which one would you prefer to dive?
7 out of 10 seem to go for the deep dive.

Glad I'm one of the 3. :10: Although I still want to dive the Tiller wreck. :11:

 

[JJ1]

I'm just not a risk taker and I picture myself dying an angry little (dirty) old man some far away day.

No one has a gun to your head. Do the dive if you want just don't endanger others in the process. Fullstop.

At least we can agree on some things

 

[starfish365]

Lets not forget that a heartattack can be had without prior knowledge or symptoms of a condition. Lets face it - how many people actually have a yearly exam which includes full stress testing, etc., which would indicate a heart condition. Not many. Even if there are symtoms most people put it off as something else. It's human nature. Unless that pain is severe we ignore it or pop a pill to make it go away.

Anyone can have a sudden attack no matter what physical condition they're in or what sport they are involved in, but as was mentioned it's unlikely to be survivable under certain conditions outside the normal sitting at home. Even then you could still die.

Without actually personally knowing the gentleman that passed away, I can see no reason to speculate as to whether he knew of his condition or not. It's not right to guess as to whether he was a thrill seeker, phyically fit, or whatever. I think it's rather cruel in fact to do so. There's possibly no one to blame in this matter at all. It could happen to anyone.

All one can hope for is to die at peace - hopefully not while diving but certainly enjoying life.

I hope it never happens to someone I know - or that I've heard of on this board. Keep safe everyone!