too deep to resurface?

[nimoh]

It's not always practical to go directly to the surface in anything less than an emergency, due to strong currents or sea conditions. A alternative plan is to meet at the touch-down point, and wait a reasonable time before ascending. There's a much better chance that you'll find your buddy and a free ascent won't be necessary.

While I agree that would be a good plan for such a situation, it needs to be communicated prior to the dive. A bad plan shared among two dive buddies is generally still better than two dive buddies with two different plans. Changing the dive plan mid-dive (as in the OP's case) results in the latter.

 

[BRT]

The fact that we even have to discuss this scenario, shows how incredibly weak the buddy system is within the context of simple recreational diving. A far safer dive plan is to say "hey we will dive together unless we get separated, if that happens, don't worry, I won't go looking for you". Safer AND ethical...

Now 70 feet is too deep to dive buddies and follow a basic recreational protocol???

I'm not too firm of a believer in the buddy system but if that is how we are diving, we need to dive that way! I've been through the 70' lost buddy thing in bad vis. I could hear my wife banging her tank but couldn't find her and our 3rd buddy. I'm fairly certain from the sound she was within 20 feet of me. Banging stopped and I ascended, on "instruments" through the green water. I didn't do a safety stop but I did come up slowly. Found nobody on the surface. Now what? Down through the gloom with my heart rate kind of high. Nothing. Back up and found them on the surface nearly to shore. We had a little discussion about procedures.

If you don't need to go up in that situation why would it not be OK just to dive on your own to 70 feet without solo training and backup air? I personally wouldn't be concerned about 70 feet on my own, but I always carry a few extra breaths along. Not many, but enough to do a quick controlled ascent if I have no air coming out of my main tank.

 

[Keith.M]

That would be a valid approach if it's been discussed, agreed to, and everyone involved is prepared to dive solo. However, under the described circumstances, it's not good advice. If you've agreed to come up, then that's your separation plan ... follow your plan. Otherwise you're only adding stressors and complications into an already bad situation ... and increasing the potential for becoming the guest of honor in an "Incidents and Accidents" thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, come on... Seriously...

You are a pretty sharp guy usually. Even with the extra comments in the middle of this thread, you miss it?

Really?

 

[kr2y5]

That you can make a direct safe ascent at any point during the dive (...) may be a last option.

It's not always practical to go directly to the surface in anything less than an emergency, due to strong currents or sea conditions.

IMHO, one should be honest with oneself, and if one is uncomfortable with a direct ascent to the surface in midwater in the given conditions to the point where it is really considered a last resort, then one should approach the dive more like a technical dive with rule of thirds, proper equipment and planning, etc. I was deeply uncomfortable with the idea of surfacing in bad visibility and current, and getting swept away and lost in the ocean offshore on a wreck dive on Long Island, never to be found again. For all intents and purposes, those were virtual overhead dives, the overhead being the result of my fear of getting lost, and that thought was one of the major reasons for me to pursue additional training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, come on... Seriously...

You are a pretty sharp guy usually. Even with the extra comments in the middle of this thread, you miss it?

Really?

I didn't miss it ... I'm just not convinced DD's comments were meant to be sarcasm. And the fact that the OP is even asking his question makes it necessary to clarify that it's advice he shouldn't consider taking seriously ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

While I agree that would be a good plan for such a situation, it needs to be communicated prior to the dive. A bad plan shared among two dive buddies is generally still better than two dive buddies with two different plans. Changing the dive plan mid-dive (as in the OP's case) results in the latter.

Well... I didn't say that it wouldn't be.

--------------------------------------------------

I have to admit on a 70ft dive, it wouldn't have occurred to me that popping up would be a solution to buddy separation. I think the other diver probably realized that it was a bad plan when he was actually forced to decide whether to surface or search. Problem here is that both divers explicitly selected a basic diving protocol for a more advanced dive. Popping up is a protocol best suited for shallow dives, but it's not really practical for more advanced dives. (This was posted is in the Advanced Section after all.) We could discuss all day what the cutoff point is depth wise, but in my opinion 70ft, is getting a little deep for popping up. Again, it depends on conditions, distance from shore, etc. In this case, there's no topside support, so the divers are each other's only backup.

What if under a dumpsterDiver like scenario, one diver goes up and the other diver doesn't, what then? The diver on the surface then has to choose whether to go back down or abandon his buddy. If he decides to go back down, he just wasted a bunch of time and gas. What if he decides to head for the shore and the other diver is entangled on the bottom and drowns? A far better plan is to return to the starting point, wait a reasonable amount of time, then go search for the buddy as long as possible. That way, when he gets back to shore he knows he did everything he could. The last thing that should happen is that his buddy doesn't make it back and he still has air in his tank because he gave up.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I didn't miss it ... I'm just not convinced DD's comments were meant to be sarcasm. And the fact that the OP is even asking his question makes it necessary to clarify that it's advice he shouldn't consider taking seriously ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Oh come on, check you PADI dive manual page 28 I think it is. It clearly states that once the dive reaches a depth in excess of 40 feet (13 meters), then the buddy system is no longer applicable. Clearly that is too deep to follow a lost diver protocol should separation occur. I mean you could get the BENDS ascending from 45 feet or something.

However, I am serious about how this thread is VERY revealing about how some of the diver's attitudes make the buddy system extremely weak.

I'm a broken record on this, but these types of ridiculous attitudes further reinforce my opinion that pony bottles should be used rather than rely upon a buddy, who may or may not decide to try to search for or help you.


In practice I dive with many buddies who we go down together that is fine and if we get separated, then everyone is on their own (but this agreed upon beforehand) !!!!!!

I also dive with my son, he knows to abort the dive if we get separated (and it has never happened yet),, In our case we have such strong currents that you would be hundreds of feet away from the separation point by the time you reach the surface.. so going back down a bubble trail would probably not work to help a diver stuck on the bottom or something.

 

[Storker]

What if under a dumpsterDiver like scenario, one diver goes up and the other diver doesn't, what then? The diver on the surface then has to choose whether to go back down or abandon his buddy. If he decides to go back down, he just wasted a bunch of time and gas. What if he decides to head for the shore and the other diver is entangled on the bottom and drowns? A far better plan is to return to the starting point, wait a reasonable amount of time, then go search for the buddy as long as possible. That way, when he gets back to shore he knows he did everything he could. The last thing that should happen is that his buddy doesn't make it back and he still has air in his tank because he gave up.

What if under a DeepSeaExplorer scenario, one diver continues to search for the lost buddy until his gas runs out? By that time, it's definitely too late to call for emergency services, because the only thing left to do is a body recovery. What if he follows normal protocol, i.e. surfacing because the viz topside usually can be measured in kilometers rather than meters, and a buddy only 50m away can be easy to spot? A far better plan if the buddy persists in not showing up, may well be to holler to the dive leader/boat tender/guy on the shore to call 112, preferably some five minutes ago. When you know that competent and properly equipped personnel have been notified and are hauling a$$ to get to the site ASAP, you can descend and try to locate the missing person on your own without search training and relevant equipment (e.g. a line reel).

There is of course no single solution to a dilemma like this, but the way I dive, my plan will be better suited to the situation than DeepSeaExplorer's plan at least nine times out of ten. In the situation I referred to in a previous post, about the diver who got separated from his buddies and continued the dive, the rescue divers and the ambulance helicopter were on the site before the stroke decided that he felt like surfacing. That means that trained rescue divers actually had a chance to locate the guy before his gas ran out.

 

[divad]

So, do you think costs should be an important question to consider if you have a missing diver situation?

Buddy separation is common and does not constitute "a missing diver situation."

 

[jboneng]

Buddy separation is common and does not constitute "a missing diver situation."

Yes, buddy separation is common, and if both divers follows agreed upon procedures, there is no problem. The problem is when one of the diver dose NOT follow agreed upon procedure, then the dive leader have to assume that there is a problem preventing the "missing" diver to surface / send up a DSMB / complete agreed upon procedure, then it goes from a simple buddy separation problem to a missing diver scenario, and proper action is needed to be taken.