too deep to resurface?

[divad]

Yes, buddy separation is common, and if both divers follows agreed upon procedures, there is no problem. The problem is when one of the diver dose NOT follow agreed upon procedure, then the dive leader have to assume that there is a problem preventing the "missing" diver to surface / send up a DSMB / complete agreed upon procedure, then it goes from a simple buddy separation problem to a missing diver scenario, and proper action is needed to be taken.

At that point, what is the "proper action needed to be taken" by the, now, two "missing divers?"

 

[Storker]

Buddy separation is common and does not constitute "a missing diver situation."

If agreed separation protocol is to "search" for an hour before surfacing, you have two solo divers and won't have a missing diver situation. If agreed buddy separation protocol is to follow the procedure taught in normal rec diving courses, i.e. search for a minute and then surface, then five minutes on the surface without a buddy in sight is a missing diver situation.

The OP dived according to the latter agreement, so in that case there was a missing diver situation. Same thing with the local guy I've been mentioning. Myself, I always dive according to the latter agreement, so if you're not going to follow agreed procedures, tell me before we splash, and I'll find another buddy. Because if we were to buddy up, I'd be taking my buddy responsibility seriously, and I'd expect you to do the same.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

What if under a DeepSeaExplorer scenario, one diver continues to search for the lost buddy until his gas runs out? By that time, it's definitely too late to call for emergency services, because the only thing left to do is a body recovery. What if he follows normal protocol, i.e. surfacing because the viz topside usually can be measured in kilometers rather than meters, and a buddy only 50m away can be easy to spot? A far better plan if the buddy persists in not showing up, may well be to holler to the dive leader/boat tender/guy on the shore to call 112, preferably some five minutes ago. When you know that competent and properly equipped personnel have been notified and are hauling a$$ to get to the site ASAP, you can descend and try to locate the missing person on your own without search training and relevant equipment (e.g. a line reel).

There is of course no single solution to a dilemma like this, but the way I dive, my plan will be better suited to the situation than DeepSeaExplorer's plan at least nine times out of ten. In the situation I referred to in a previous post, about the diver who got separated from his buddies and continued the dive, the rescue divers and the ambulance helicopter were on the site before the stroke decided that he felt like surfacing. That means that trained rescue divers actually had a chance to locate the guy before his gas ran out.

I have no idea what situation you're referencing in your post, not sure I even read your post. But, you're right. In your case, it would be much better to call-in real divers and let them handle it, since doing a lost buddy search requires tools and special skills.

New plan, bail on your buddy at the first sign of trouble, get hysterical, call 9-1-1 and tell them you lost your dive buddy and let them handle it.

 

[jboneng]

At that point, what is the "proper action needed to be taken" by the, now, two "missing divers?"

First I don't see how this becomes to two missing divers, one of the divers did follow the procedure and the dive leader knows his/her status. The proper action in a missing diver scenario is, first call for rescue, then send the standby diver into the water to search for the missing diver, third make everything ready in the boat like prepare the 02 tank, rescue net and so on. If the standby diver finds the missing diver, and the not-so-missing-diver-any-more is safe, cancel the rescue call.

 

[Storker]

not sure I even read your post.

Figures.

New plan, bail on your buddy at the first sign of trouble, get hysterical, call 9-1-1 and tell them you lost your dive buddy and let them handle it.

Hyperbole, much?

Who said anything about bailing at the first sign of trouble?
Who said anything about getting hysterical?

The proper course of action in our neck of the woods if a diver fails to surface according to the plan is basically what jboneng outlined in his post #54. You see, we assume by default that our dive buddies are competent and able to follow agreed plans.

If someone doesn't want to follow normal procedures, doesn't give a maximum dive time and insists on staying under until they feel like surfacing, we don't call for rescue divers and ambulance helicopter if we don't see him. Then we call in a body recovery team at the end of the day.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Well... I just have to say I was a little stunned by your post.

I suspect that your dives are mostly supported dives in that you think there's always someone on the boat or shore ready to lend assistance. When the OP said shore dive, that typically is a dive without surface support. Yeah, there might be some random stranger wandering the beach looking for seashells that you can yell to, but that's not a plan either.

My main points:

- There are dives where surfacing to search for your buddy is not a good option.

- There are other options than popping up. (Obviously to be discussed predive.)

- Use the available resources to best advantage.

- Don't abandon your buddy search until you are forced to. Realistically, you are your buddy's best hope for survival. Counting on shore support is abdicating your responsibility to others.

- If your buddy doesn't appreciate that, find someone else to dive with.

BTW, if you call out the helicopters on me while I'm searching for your a$$ on the bottom, I'll title my SB post: The Last Dive, with Storker. :cool2:


Additional Comment --------------------------------

I think the difference in opinion is that all entry-level divers are told that all problems can be solved by going to the surface. However, at more advanced levels, the thinking is that divers need to be able to solve problems at depth and going to the surface may not be the best option.

 

[Storker]

I suspect that your dives are mostly supported dives in that you think there's always someone on the boat or shore ready to lend assistance.

They're not "supported", but if we're just two guys diving I usually make sure to have a person left on shore, or tending my boat, yes. Because I don't leave my boat unattended on a single 4kg or 8kg grapnel in the waters I usually frequent. If we're three or more, we often forgo the person on the shore, because there will be at least one person to handle an in-water emergency plus one to call emergency services.

if you call out the helicopters on me while I'm searching for your a$$ on the bottom, I'll title my SB post: The Last Dive, with Storker. :cool2:

If you've lost me and then spend the next half hour searching for my a$$ on the bottom without realizing I've surfaced, you've probably broken our agreed buddy separation procedure and deserve to have the helicopters called out on you :cool2:

 

[nimoh]

Well... I didn't say that it wouldn't be..

Yes, you didn't say that it wouldn't be...which is why I added it

 

[divad]

First I don't see how this becomes to two missing divers, one of the divers did follow the procedure and the dive leader knows his/her status. The proper action in a missing diver scenario is, first call for rescue, then send the standby diver into the water to search for the missing diver, third make everything ready in the boat like prepare the 02 tank, rescue net and so on. If the standby diver finds the missing diver, and the not-so-missing-diver-any-more is safe, cancel the rescue call.

In the original post, both divers where missing from each other:

There was no "dive leader".
There was no "standby diver"
There was no boat, no O2 tank, no "rescue net and so on".
And there was no phone to "first call for rescue" on.

 

[Kharon]

I am kind of at a loss as to why you are asking this? You made an agreement and you did not live up to your end.

No one said you needed to make an unsafe ascent. You messed up, own it.

The OP said "I slowly made my way back to the area where we started, made a safety stop at 15 ft, and surfaced." I am kind of at a loss as to your reply. Nowhere did they say they continued the dive. They just made what to them was a safe ascent.