Travelers beware

[jkaterenchuk]

The US Immigration services?. I have been a RA in the US for 28 years and never had a problem with them or any other goverment.

I have been to Thailand many time and never had a problem with the police force. So I guess we are equal and your opinion and postings about the Thai police are just as meaningless as my opinion about the INS.

Except that I have also been a RA for almost 20 years and I have first hand seen INS in operation with not issuing visa's in foreign countries for business travel with no explanation or recourse, confiscating company business documents with out charge and failure to process and return said documents several months and years later, what would be considered unlawful search, detention and deportation for RA for reasons that normal citizens would cringe at if they knew what was going on.

I guess you have just been lucky or not been in a situation to experience such behaviour as is the case for me regarding the Thai police. So why do you persist in using the opinions and experiences of someone else or some report as if they are your own. Seems kind of silly to me but I suspect you will miss the point of my little demonstration caparision to the INS.

John

 

[cdiver2]

I have been to Thailand many time and never had a problem with the police force. So I guess we are equal and your opinion and postings about the Thai police are just as meaningless as my opinion about the INS.

Except that I have also been a RA for almost 20 years and I have first hand seen INS in operation with not issuing visa's in foreign countries for business travel with no explanation or recourse, confiscating company business documents with out charge and failure to process and return said documents several months and years later, what would be considered unlawful search, detention and deportation for RA for reasons that normal citizens would cringe at if they knew what was going on.

I guess you have just been lucky or not been in a situation to experience such behaviour as is the case for me regarding the Thai police. So why do you persist in using the opinions and experiences of someone else or some report as if they are your own. Seems kind of silly to me but I suspect you will miss the point of my little demonstration caparision to the INS.

John

I am not saying you are wrong or lying about the US immigration service I simply asked what had gone wrong in your dealings with them (did they threaten you with imprisonment to extort money from you?). Yes there are rules and regulations for RA's in the US (you can be deported on a simple traffic violation) but I was made aware of these rule when I came to the US and accepted them.

ON the other hand you seem to be saying that all negative reports are on Thailand are wrong/lies.

As you have said maybe I have not been in a similar situation with the immigration service, but that doe's not mean it doe's not happen.
Like wise just because you have never been caught in con scheme where the Thai police were involved in it doe's not mean it doe's not happen.

So why do I use reports from other places? perhaps because I believe that the source,s I have used are more reliable/wider data base than yours UN, media then there's you that's never had a problem.

Before I start this piece I have never said the reports were my own experience I state where the reports came from, (just in case there is a problem with (copyright))

From different sources. 150 people from different countries arrested for shoplifting in the Bangkok airport in the last year. It appears all are in the middle to upper income bracket but in the back packer bracket none? Perhaps its the baby boomer's that have found a new way to get there Joly's off, there all waiting breathlessly to go to Bangkok airport to shop lift even though the stuff is cheaper in the stores back home.



So I guess in your words my posts and yours are meaningless and that makes us equal....... or doe's it? I never said yours were lies or wrong

 

[Quero]

Would I go or advise anyone to go to Thailand not on your life when they can circumnavigate the normal Judaical system and demand money in lieu of the normal prison sentence. Now that's scary.

They said the money was to avoid prison and pay Tony the interpreter (who makes a living at this). What was wrong with letting them contact the Embassy? this is a normal procedure in most civilized country's.

This smells of a big time scam

cdiver2, you are correct that there are bent cops in Thailand, as there are everywhere in the world, and perhaps there are more of them here than where you live, but this presumption does not offer proof in any way that the UK couple accused of shoplifting are innocent.

There are different perspectives to all stories--consider this one. As has been said, when suspected shoplifters are picked up here, they can generally choose to go the judicial route, in which they must stay in the country and attend their hearings in court, or they can settle out of court with the aggrieved party (the shop) and are then free to leave the country. This couple took the settlement route. You must be aware that out-of-court settlements are not fixed fines but are negotiated amongst the parties involved. The practice of settlements and subsequent dropping of charges is common practice in the judicial systems of most countries in the world.

Perhaps the UK couple felt their position was weak, (including psychological reasons such their lack of familiarity with the system, worry about getting back home, etc.), perhaps they felt intimidated and out of their depth in response to the petty nature of the crime, perhaps they knew they were guilty and cringed at the thought of the "Bangkok Hilton"--but regardless of their motivation, the fact remains that they made bail and paid an out-of-court settlement to have the charges dropped. As I understand it, the police at one point said the couple failed to reclaim the bail money, in the amount of THB 200K, once the charges were dropped. Who's to say if the settlement and the associated legal fees were reasonable? The accused agreed to pay; if they had refused, they would have gone to court.

Embassies can only get involved once a national is imprisoned, and even then, they can't do much other than make sure that conditions are humane and that legal counsel is available; furthermore, the process is not instantaneous--it may take days for a consulate official to meet with a prisoner. When foreign nationals are arrested for an offense in a country, they are subject to the laws and procedures of that country, and no embassy can shortcut those laws and processes. Again, this couple chose to go the settlement route rather than the judicial route.

There are plenty of victims of scams, cons, and outright theft who really do deserve our sympathy, but I have to say that IMO, if this couple from the UK had just kept their sticky fingers to themselves in that Duty Free shop, they'd have avoided this nightmare. They were on the wrong side of the law, they got caught, they paid the settlement, and now they cry crocodile tears about extortion?

 

[cdiver2]

cdiver2, you are correct that there are bent cops in Thailand, as there are everywhere in the world, and perhaps there are more of them here than where you live, but this presumption does not offer proof in any way that the UK couple accused of shoplifting are innocent.

There are different perspectives to all stories--consider this one. As has been said, when suspected shoplifters are picked up here, they can generally choose to go the judicial route, in which they must stay in the country and attend their hearings in court, or they can settle out of court with the aggrieved party (the shop) and are then free to leave the country. This couple took the settlement route. You must be aware that out-of-court settlements are not fixed fines but are negotiated amongst the parties involved. The practice of settlements and subsequent dropping of charges is common practice in the judicial systems of most countries in the world.

Perhaps the UK couple felt their position was weak, (including psychological reasons such their lack of familiarity with the system, worry about getting back home, etc.), perhaps they felt intimidated and out of their depth in response to the petty nature of the crime, perhaps they knew they were guilty and cringed at the thought of the "Bangkok Hilton"--but regardless of their motivation, the fact remains that they made bail and paid an out-of-court settlement to have the charges dropped. As I understand it, the police at one point said the couple failed to reclaim the bail money, in the amount of THB 200K, once the charges were dropped. Who's to say if the settlement and the associated legal fees were reasonable? The accused agreed to pay; if they had refused, they would have gone to court.

Embassies can only get involved once a national is imprisoned, and even then, they can't do much other than make sure that conditions are humane and that legal counsel is available; furthermore, the process is not instantaneous--it may take days for a consulate official to meet with a prisoner. When foreign nationals are arrested for an offense in a country, they are subject to the laws and procedures of that country, and no embassy can shortcut those laws and processes. Again, this couple chose to go the settlement route rather than the judicial route.

There are plenty of victims of scams, cons, and outright theft who really do deserve our sympathy, but I have to say that IMO, if this couple from the UK had just kept their sticky fingers to themselves in that Duty Free shop, they'd have avoided this nightmare. They were on the wrong side of the law, they got caught, they paid the settlement, and now they cry crocodile tears about extortion?

You are correct on the legal procedures but they were denied there right to contact there embassy. You say if they make bail they have to stay in country until there hearing, that sounds fair. However if they are told they will go to jail and it can take months to come to trial. I think I would pay to avoid that horror, guilty or not

I am looking at the situation at the airport in the last year and it doe's not look to good

1/The video is not the best there are frames missing I assume this is because there are more than one cameras in the store and the recorder takes sequences from each camera in turn.

Then I read a report they were arrested out side the store then another report they were arrested at the departure gate and yet another report they were arrested at a eatery in the airport. Something not right there.

2/ The Irish lady. The video shows her putting objects on the counter in front of the clerk. When she leaves the store she is arrested for shop lifting,so she shows them the receipt but what a horror it is only got the lipstick on and not the eye liner.



3/ The last gentleman. the video shows him on the floor in front of the counter packing his carry on (I presume with things he had bought) He then reaches up and gets the last thing on the counter, not his. Was this a honest mistake was he set up. I can not imagine some one crouching on the floor in front of the counter just waiting to see if the clerk places something on the counter where he is so he can reach up and snatch it. It would be nice to see the video from him walking up to the counter until he took the cigars.

Last as I said before 150 arrests at this store in the last year all wealthy enough to pay $7000 but no reports of arrests of the lower income bracket that could not find that kind of money. Then you have this Tony that just happens to be around to help the 150 shoplifters that comes in. If it had been just the British couple I would have said guilty send em to jail but. As bad as it looks for the British couple it looks just as bad for at least some staff and police officers.