trimix training

[DCBC]

What if you figured out that you have reached your own limits with air long before 160ft? Like say at 110 ft? Should you still continue going progressively deeper with air? All the way to 200ft? For what purpose?

I think learning to dive air to 200 FSW (your example) isn't any different than someone diving a Cave. Both have risk that can be mitigated by training. Someone learning DA doesn't start by doing a 200 FSW dive anymore than a future Cave diver starts by entering a Cave on the first dive. They start out with a Cavern course and progress from there. One increment before the other.

You can disobey "the rules" at any time, on any type of dive (unfortunately, people do all too often). If you follow the rules (your training), you can do the dive until a predetermined point and scrub it quite safely. I'm not saying that DA is entirely safe; Diving CCR, decompression (regardless of the gas used), Cave, or Wreck all carry an element of increased risk.

Why should DA pose an unacceptable risk over any other type of diving? People who speak against DA are often not knowledgeable about how its suppose to be done. I think they envision some diver diving deep, staying at depth until they are totally waisted and foolishly tempting fate. That's not what's done.

There is a difference in a diver diving DA without proper training and another diver who takes the training and obeys the rules. It's no difference than the diver who enters a Cave without training and another who's certified to do so. In one case, the risk is foolhardy and the other one it's mitigated by knowing how it can be safely accomplished.

 

[Adobo]

I think learning to dive air to 200 FSW (your example) isn't any different than someone diving a Cave. Both have risk that can be mitigated by training. Someone learning DA doesn't start by doing a 200 FSW dive anymore than a future Cave diver starts by entering a Cave on the first dive. They start out with a Cavern course and progress from there. One increment before the other.

First, the analogy of cave diving and deep air diving is flawed. But that's a different topic for a different thread.
Second, while there are many strong opinions on deep air diving, I am not advocating for or against deep air diving in this thread. That is a different topic for a different thread.

This thread, if I understood correctly, is about the objective behind/value derived from incorporating a few deep air dives in a trimix class.

So far, the only value I can see proponents are proposing is that it might give a diver a sense of where his/her depth limits might be with a nitrox mix under supervised/benign conditions. (I find the value of this information to be rather questionable as being able to dive nitrox comfortably at 180ft under benign conditions and being able to perform effectively under emergency conditions at 180ft are two very different things.)

I see no other cogent arguments regarding why deep air as part of a trimix class is sensible. But I will continue to follow this thread in the chance that someone will provide additional arguments for it.

---------- Post added July 23rd, 2013 at 07:43 AM ----------

If you want someone to teach you Trimix without any deep air experience/dives as part of/prerequisite to the course, go elsewhere. If you have a hard time finding such an intructor...maybe that should tell you something.

Again, I personally have trimix training already. The agency that I got my training from is fairly well known as a tech and cave training agency. They have absolutely no deep air programs and by standard, do not let their instructors take students on dives with and END greater than 100ft/30m. I can think of at least two other agencies (one is a major agency, the other is more of a niche agency that specializes in tech training) that do not mandate deep air as part of their trimix program. These are outside of TDI and IANTD who apparently do not mandate deep air experience for their trimix programs either.

So to my knowledge, at least five agencies with trimix programs do not mandate deep air experience as part of trimix training. If I was to use this particular set of "facts" only, I might conclude that advocating for deep air in trimix classes is completely and utterly pointless. I mean, if there was something so important to learn from the deep air experience, wouldn't it be a standard component for all the various trimix programs across all or most of the tech training agencies?

However, I can appreciate that beyond these five agencies, there are other opinions. And I am doing my best to keep an open mind in the case that someone does have a good argument for advocating deep air in trimix classes.

 

[elan]

No it required for GUE tech classes

Deep air isn't required for either TDI or IANTD Normoxic courses, and instructors who follow the standard aren't hard to find.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

It would appear "deep" is quite subjective.

 

[rjack321]

If you want someone to teach you Trimix without any deep air experience/dives as part of/prerequisite to the course, go elsewhere. If you have a hard time finding such an intructor...maybe that should tell you something.

Actually there are several whole agencies who have no "deep air" curriculum at all. And several prominent instructors on this board don't teach deep air anymore for the agencies they are officers in. So I suppose you should get out more...