Use a gag strap?

[stuartv]

My training on my rEvo was to use a gag strap. Other rEvo instructors teach the rEvo with no gag strap.

I have never seen anyone else diving a CCR with a gag strap besides myself and my buddy who did the training alongside me - and he quit using his right after we finished the training.

I find it annoying, but I have stuck with doing it like I was trained, up until just my last few dives (I've just hit 50 dives on my unit), where I have been trying it with no gag strap, to see how I like it that way.

A buddy of mine is based in the UK and has dived CCR all over the world. He regularly does dives >60m and has done more than a handful past 100m. He said he's never seen anyone using a gag strap out in the real world.

I'm just curious what the folks here do. If you do use one, are you certified for MOD1, 2, or 3? I am particularly curious what the more experienced CCR divers, who are doing >60m dives, do.

Thanks.

 

[rjack321]

I use a gag strap on my Meg with a golem BOV. My deep BO is connected to the BOV and I have a stuffed long hose on that gas

I don't use a gag strap on my Kiss sidewinder with a golem DSV. I have a stuffed long hose on my right BO, my left side I have a necklaced bungie BO.

I like the gag strap and at least one French military study does show they save lives. I don't really like it without a BOV and I don't use a BOV on my kiss so I don't use the gag strap on that unit. So I answered sometimes.

My deepest dive is in the 90m range. Most are shallower. I have probably 60hrs below 50m. 250hrs combined on the two units over the past 5 yrs. I'm OC trimix, Mod1 on CCR.

 

[doctormike]

I also read that French military study, and got one to try out, but haven't put it on. Also concerned about using it with no BOV, and making a quick switch to an OC regulator from the DSV. Figured I would give it a try in the quarry, but haven't had the chance yet.

 

[rjack321]

I also read that French military study, and got one to try out, but haven't put it on. Also concerned about using it with no BOV, and making a quick switch to an OC regulator from the DSV. Figured I would give it a try in the quarry, but haven't had the chance yet.

I especially like mine with a BOV and mixed CCR/OC buddies since if I pass out (or I'm acting incoherent) not only is it more likely to stay in, they can just switch me to OC and bring me up. Having the least complicated rescue protocol for a non-CCR trained OC buddy seems like the most likely to succeed to me.

To switch to an OC 2nd with the gag strap just be sure to pull the DSV down around your chin then insert the 2nd stage into your mouth above it. If you pull the strap over your head you are highly likely to lose your mask in the process.

 

[stuartv]

I use a gag strap on my Meg with a golem BOV. My deep BO is connected to the BOV and I have a stuffed long hose on that gas

I don't use a gag strap on my Kiss sidewinder with a golem DSV. I have a stuffed long hose on my right BO, my left side I have a necklaced bungie BO.

I like the gag strap and at least one French military study does show they save lives. I don't really like it without a BOV and I don't use a BOV on my kiss so I don't use the gag strap on that unit. So I answered sometimes.

My deepest dive is in the 90m range. Most are shallower. I have probably 60hrs below 50m. 250hrs combined on the two units over the past 5 yrs. I'm OC trimix, Mod1 on CCR.

Your stats on deepest and hours below 50m are all on OC? (I'm just inferring that from being MOD1 on CCR) MOD1 is pretty vague, in my opinion. It includes Air Dil No Deco all the way to Adv Rec Trimix CCR, which is what I have. So, anything from 100', no deco, on air, to 170', 15 minutes of deco, on trimix - all count as MOD1.

With your Sidewinder, what do you do if you need to donate gas to an OOA OC diver? Or if your buddy is on BO, gets down to half, and needs to swap BO cylinders with you? (swapping BO cylinders was also part of my training)

I also read that French military study, and got one to try out, but haven't put it on. Also concerned about using it with no BOV, and making a quick switch to an OC regulator from the DSV. Figured I would give it a try in the quarry, but haven't had the chance yet.

I was trained on a stock rEvo, which means DSV (no BOV), and gag strap. My training was to close the DSV and just pull it down out of the way (i.e. onto my chin), then stick the BO reg in my mouth. The gag strap is stretchy enough to permit that without any real hassle. Once (if?) I have composed myself enough to do it without drama, I was trained to pull off the gag strap, remove the BO reg, push the DSV up, then put the BO reg back in.

Given the need to close the DSV, which means you have to put a hand on it anyway, it doesn't seem like having the gag strap there really slows down the switch.

I found the link to the French study in an older thread. For convenience, here is the link:

https://www.scubaboard.com/community/attachments/gempp-rebreather-deaths-pdf.382076/

 

[doctormike]

I especially like mine with a BOV and mixed CCR/OC buddies since if I pass out (or I'm acting incoherent) not only is it more likely to stay in, they can just switch me to OC and bring me up. Having the least complicated rescue protocol for a non-CCR trained OC buddy seems like the most likely to succeed to me.

To switch to an OC 2nd with the gag strap just be sure to pull the DSV down around your chin then insert the 2nd stage into your mouth above it. If you pull the strap over your head you are highly likely to lose your mask in the process.

Yeah, I wear my BO 2nd stage on a necklace. I guess I would have to rethink that with a gag strap.

 

[rjack321]

Your stats on deepest and hours below 50m are all on OC? (I'm just inferring that from being MOD1 on CCR) MOD1 is pretty vague, in my opinion. It includes Air Dil No Deco all the way to Adv Rec Trimix CCR, which is what I have. So, anything from 100', no deco, on air, to 170', 15 minutes of deco, on trimix - all count as MOD1.

Trimix is trimix. I have roughly 400 OC trimix dives mostly in the 45-70m range and a couple deeper ones.
I would only take MOD2 or 3 if I was going someplace that cared.
My 90m dive was on CCR. The ~60 hours at 50m+ is all CCR.

With your Sidewinder, what do you do if you need to donate gas to an OOA OC diver? Or if your buddy is on BO, gets down to half, and needs to swap BO cylinders with you? (swapping BO cylinders was also part of my training)

My sidewinder is for cave diving (and training dives for cave diving)
The Left BO is a necklaced bungied reg under my chin
The Right BO is a stuffed long hose clipped of on my right chest Dring. It has a breakaway or I can unclip it.
They are both the same gas for cave dives. The left BO is really only usable by me. The right with the long hose is usable by me or is sharable with a buddy. In theory I could take it off, in reality I'm not taking off a steel 45/50/85/130 to give to a buddy. Its a sidemount CCR so I expect any cave diving buddy to 1) have enough CCR BO that 1/2 of mine would only be needed in a dire emergency and 2) if on OC they are also in SM and not be at a high risk for a complete gas loss anyway. So having access to 1/2 of my cave BO would also only be for a dire OC emergency.

 

[doctormike]

So the question is - given one's current diving style - which is a more likely failure scenario? Loss of consciousness or early symptoms of hypercapnea / hyperoxia with associated panic.

 

[rjack321]

Yeah, I wear my BO 2nd stage on a necklace. I guess I would have to rethink that with a gag strap.

That's the main reason I don't use it on the sidewinder. I have necklaced BO on that unit, mostly because that unit uses a basic OC SM setup and "adds" the sidewinder on top of it. The OC configuration and regs are otherwise unchanged.

 

[rjack321]

So the question is - given one's current diving style - which is a more likely failure scenario? Loss of consciousness or early symptoms of hypercapnea / hyperoxia with associated panic.

Why would someone panic at hyperoxia? Flush it down
CO2 definitely induces panic! lol