Watson Murder Case - Discussion

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My suggestion for posters...

People keep posting links to articles, but there are thousands of them. Google brings up a good choice.

Now if there is something that you want to mention about something from one, great - include the source and give you comments. Or any other comments. This is just parlor talk and no one expects you to read the previous 1500 posts here.
 
My suggestion for posters...

People keep posting links to articles, but there are thousands of them. Google brings up a good choice.

Now if there is something that you want to mention about something from one, great - include the source and give you comments. Or any other comments. This is just parlor talk and no one expects you to read the previous 1500 posts here.

In all seriousness...this is going to be a very difficult case for the prosecution. Many of us have heard the term 'CSI effect'.
Considering notorious trials such as OJ and Casey Anthony...this is not going to end in a conviction. I could not be a juror on this trial and convict on what I "think" may have happened. Even if we read all the reprehensible things that Gabe knowingly did after Tina's death, such as moving her burial plot (tis true) and being videotaped trashing flowers from her grave he removed with bolt cutters, we have a salacious tale that is fascinating when you dig into it...but too much speculation for a guilty verdict. The standard these days is beyond a shadow of a doubt. So where is the magical line between reasonable doubt and beyond all doubt in our minds as we debate guilt or not guilty. And not guilty does not represent innocent. It just means the facts are not compelling enough to convict.

I look forward to hearing the 'evidence' of the case to see how much has been hyperbole or downright false and what the witnesses will ultimately testify to.
 
The standard these days is beyond a shadow of a doubt.
No, actually that is a myth started by the old Perry Mason TV show, altho you may not remember it. Beyond reasonable doubt is all they have to reach, but I agree with you on the rest of it. They don't have it, unless they surprise us with new evidence - but the prosecution has to give that info to the defense before the trial.
 
No, actually that is a myth started by the old Perry Mason TV show, altho you may not remember it. Beyond reasonable doubt is all they have to reach, but I agree with you on the rest of it. They don't have it, unless they surprise us with new evidence - but the prosecution has to give that info to the defense before the trial.
No, you misunderstood my meaning. I am saying that in jurors minds that has become the standard. I am well aware that we are to judge as reasonable doubt. It doesn't happen anymore these days. People tend to make it shadow of a doubt instead...ergo CSI effect!!

As I stated in my earlier post: So where is the magical line between reasonable doubt and beyond all doubt in our minds as we debate guilt or not guilty.
 
I've spent a few hours reading a number of articles and posts on this thread. The following comments represent my opinions, impressions and in some cases conclusions. Maybe they will provide a different perspective or encourage a different way of thinking about what happened.

1. Gabe as a person is easy to dislike. Many aspects of his behaviour before, during and after the death of his wife seem deplorable and bizarre. Some of it may be explained by the bad blood between families. Also, the media has shone the spotlight into the deep and dark recesses of his life in a bid to paint him as the villain. I'd guess most of us would have a few dark secrets which could be used to quickly turn public opinion against us if known. Did I hear a few stones hit the ground.

2. The family of Tina and particularly her father are understandably distraught at the death of their daughter and they evidently hate Gabe who they blame for her death. It would be easy for that distress and personal antagonism to cloud their judgement. It seems that has occurred.

3. While Gabe had done a number of dives at the time of the incident, few were in the ocean. Most were in quarries where there would be little current and surface movement. I'd class him as a relatively inexperienced diver and someone not particularly comfortable diving in the ocean. This should be taken into account when considering his response to this emergency. It seems likely that Gabe was responsible for Tina being grossly over weighted. It could have been a malicious act, but it also could be another sign of Gabe's inexperience.

4. I'm not very impressed with the level of investigation work carried out by the Australian police. It smacks of sloppiness and pragmatism rather than the careful and detailed review needed to establish the facts that underpinned their charges. The claims made regarding the dive computer battery were a case in point. Their lack of diving experience is telling. While they are not expected to be experts on all subjects, they do need to be able to liaise with experts, and make sound judgements based on the advice given by those experts. No one saw Tina's final moments except Gabe, so the whole case was based on circumstantial evidence. It seems that the police's judgement was too influenced by personalities and popular opinion.

5. Keep in mind that we don't have all the facts that are available. I've not even seen a dive profile from Gabe's computer. We cannot confirm that Gabe's mouth piece was disconnected from the regulator in the struggle. I presume some attempt was made to obtain this information and it was presented to the courts.

6. Let's assume for a moment that what Gabe says was true. That he tried to lift his wife as she descended quickly as a result of being grossly over weight, that he did try to get her to inflate her BCD but it failed, that his mask got knocked and filled as his wife struggled, that the mouth piece separated from the regulator and that there was a reasonably strong current running. Keeping in mind his background, I think that while you could describe his efforts as less than heroic, they certainly could not be classed as grossly irresponsible or malicious. It is generally accepted that a person is not obliged to carry out a rescue if it puts their life in danger. Seems to me that is the point to which Gabe arrived based on his version of events. About the only thing that sprung to my mind that I haven't seen discussed much is why Gabe didn't simply remove the weights from Tina's BCD. I note that the diver who rescued her decided not to do this because of concerns about the difficulty in releasing integrated weights. His response was to ditch his own weights. I wouldn't have thought to do this and neither it seems did Gabe. Given he was in a state of panic that was understandable.

7. I believe that the courts got it right in not convicting Gabe of murder. He may have murdered his wife, but this was not established beyond reasonable doubt. I wonder how many of us would consider a conviction of manslaughter as being fair if we aborted a rescue because we deemed the risk too high. Few more rocks hit the ground? Personally I think that option should remain without that threat. You can call a person who does this selfish and gutless with some justification, but the decision to risk your life for someone else is a choice that you make and not something that should be forced on you by the law.
 
:shakehead:
My suggestion for posters...

People keep posting links to articles, but there are thousands of them. Google brings up a good choice.

Now if there is something that you want to mention about something from one, great - include the source and give you comments. Or any other comments. This is just parlor talk and no one expects you to read the previous 1500 posts here.
 
I sincerely doubt it. Everything we've stated here is based on limited information. We don't have everything so our "analysis" is very incomplete.

If you look at past threads, that's never stopped us before.
 

This is not one of the thousands of articles that have been published. This is opening statements in the trial from a local news channel which is covering the trial. This information has not been published before.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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