Weekful of OOA in Coz.

[Ken Kurtis]

So things I've learned-
I need to be a better buddy

Yes . . . but so does everybody, including those of us who do this for a living. My point is that there's no such things as being "too good of a buddy". But this board is replete with stories of buddies whose buddy behaviour is less than acceptable.

and assume anyone I dive with is a halfwit until proven otherwise.

Perhaps a bit harsh (or just poorly phrased). How about: Never assume any diver is as good as they claim until shown otherwise.

Never trust the DM.

Foolhardy, IMHO. There's plenty of excellent DMs out there. You wanna just blow them all off due to a bad experience in Cozumel? I guarantee you that when I signal "Let's go this way" there's a reason. I guarantee you that when I signal "Let's come up a bit" there's a reason. Etc., etc.

How about modifying this one to: Never abdicate to the DM your duty to be responsible for your personal safety underwater.

Stick to the plan. Even if the DM tries to change it.

Same issues as above. If I'm changing the game plan, I guarantee you there's a reason. My issue with the way you phrased it is that it sounds too hard-and-fast. It may turn out that the plan, based on a change in conditions, wasn't a god one and sticking to the plan come hell or high water will put you in jeopardy. But all of this doesn't mean (see "Don't abdicate" comment above) that you can't say "Not for me" and abort the dive.

How about adding one more: Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

In the same way that not all divers are going to be good or competent underwater just because they have a c-card, not all DMs or guides are going to be threats to your safety just because you had a bad experience with one previously.

- Ken

 

[DandyDon]

Sorry, missed this remark to me earlier...

No thanks. How do you suggest I force people to communicate their gas to me? Am I to swim up and grab their SPG from them?

Sure, if you need to; why not?

I prefer to establish hand signals in the pre-dive plan between buds. There are polite ways to phrase it, such as "If it's okay with you, I like to continuously update each other on how much air each has left - like at 1500, 1000, 700, etc - ok? What kind of signals do you like? What do you think our ascent pressure should be on this dive for the depth the DM briefed us? And let's do stay within a breath of each other; want to take turns on who's in front?" Anything difficult there?

So you periodically communicate your pressure to him/her, excepting the same in response, point to him/her then your spg, make a dial motion with your finger, or just take his/her console to look. Nothing wrong with that.

Doesn't that just change the DM being nanny to me being nanny?

WHERE did you get the idea the DM was supposed to be your wet nurse, or even look after you? They are supposed to brief you, lead you, enforce park rules, and assist you some - but you trained to be a diver. You & your bud need to take care of yourselves, individually and together - or stay out of the water.

I've never been OOA or even close.

Me neither the first hundred dives. I have screwed up since so I am not talking down to you; more so trying to share from my mistakes.

Do you want to learn or just argue?

So things I've learned-
I need to be a better buddy and assume anyone I dive with is a halfwit until proven otherwise.

Haha that's what got me to buy a pony. It's a hassle all the way but I don't like to dive below 30 ft without it. I've used it to help others and for my screw ups as well.

Never trust the DM.

Depends.

Stick to the plan. Even if the DM tries to change it.

Call the dive when you feel the need, yeah.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think a big source of these issues is that in places like Cozumel, most people don't really HAVE a buddy. Oh, they might have been assigned one on the boat, but once they're in the water, they're a herd ... and everybody focuses on the herd leader. And when a problem occurs, they all assume it's the DM's job to fix it.

Group diving is well and good in places like that ... but you always have to remember that your first responsibility is to your own safety, and that of the person you agreed to go on this dive with ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

I think there are really two good lessons to learn here.

The first one is that you can't assume your buddy is monitoring his gas carefully unless you check, even if that buddy is your wife. I like Dandy Don's description of his pre-dive discussion with a buddy -- it seems very non-threatening and also very clear. I tell people I will ask them their pressure at ten minute intervals (or more often, if it appears that they are really going through gas) and that I will tell them what I have, too. Better no surprises. Now, of course, my husband and I do NOT do that, but we have dived together enough, and done enough technical and cave training to trust one another on gas monitoring. With a stranger, all bets are off.

The other lesson is that you are the customer, paying the money for the trip -- as long as what you want to do is not unsafe or ridiculously inconvenient, you should be allowed to do it. (And certainly staying shallower and avoiding swimthroughs is MORE conservative and safer than going deeper and into overheads.) When we went to Coz, we dove 32% all week, and simply told the dive op we wanted to stay above 100 fsw. They respected that. Had the guide suggested we go deeper, we would simply have waved him off.

I wish divers had better information about comparing the planned dive with their gas supply, but my husband has done talks on gas management at local dive clubs, and at at least one of them, the audience was yawning and starting to chat while he was talking. You can lead a horse to water . . .

 

[midwayman]

How about adding one more: Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

In the same way that not all divers are going to be good or competent underwater just because they have a c-card, not all DMs or guides are going to be threats to your safety just because you had a bad experience with one previously.

- Ken

Didn't say never listen to a DM, they are all the same or anything near they are all threat to my safety. Just don't trust them, the same way you wouldn't trust anyone with your life that you're not very familiar with. I admit I've given blind trust to DM's before. That is going to stop.

 

[alibi 2]

What scares me is that so many unqualified divers getting certifacations to dive!
No certified diver should run out of air. It is up to each diver to be aware of their own air supply and know when they need to surface and plan that they have enough air to do a safety stop.

Each diver needs to know what their experiance and comfort zones are and dive within these boundries. If they need a baby sitter they need to hire a dive master to dive with them and not expect that a dm with 6 others to watch will be able to watch them. The dm at these locations is basically a "tour" guide...when we recently went to Cozumel we knew the level of each of our divers. We were able to get a boat for just our group for most of the days. When they did have others join us we worked it out with the shop that only divers who were at the level of our group could be placed on our boat. We had not one incident of OOA or any other emergancy during our 7 days. Only once did a couple deciede not to go thru a swim thru but told no one bout it. We found them coming over the top ...they were instructed not to do this again and why and they didn't...

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Only once did a couple deciede not to go thru a swim thru but told no one bout it. We found them coming over the top ...they were instructed not to do this again and why and they didn't...

@alibi 2: If a buddy pair in a dive group decides not to do a swim-through during the dive, I really don't think they should be scolded for it. As a courtesy, they should simply re-locate to the exit of the swim-through in a timely fashion so that the DM can see that all are present and accounted for. That's just common sense.

I really don't think the most sensible course of action here was to "instruct" the pair "not to do this again." After all, it's pretty restrictive to only give them the two following choices: (1) they must do the swim-through, or (2) they should inform the DM that they didn't want to do the swim-through prior to the dive.
Any number of issues can occur during a dive that might cause a buddy team to skip a swim-through:

• If the swim-through occurs at a significant depth, narcosis can be an issue.
• One of the two divers might be having a breathing, fatigue, or cramp issue.
• One of the divers might have a minor equipment problem.
• One of the divers might be getting close to rock bottom pressure for a given depth.

In all of these cases, I wouldn't blame the pair at all for bypassing the swim-through without notifying the DM during the pre-dive briefing.

If the DM is going to lead the group through a bunch of swim-throughs, it's his/her responsibility to make sure that no one gets stuck inside and that everyone is accounted for after the group finishes the swim-through.

On a side note, I really don't know why divers enjoy doing the swim-throughs in Cozumel so much. There's nothing to see in there. If you're unlucky enough to get behind someone who kicks up a bunch of sand or has a regulator issue or floods/loses a mask or who loses buoyancy control and gets stuck to the ceiling or panics...well...you're in a bit of a pickle because you've got other divers behind you in a conga line. In certain cases, you might have to just shove the troubled diver out the exit. Not my idea of fun.

 

[boulderjohn]

On a side note, I really don't know why divers enjoy doing the swim-throughs in Cozumel so much. There's nothing to see in there. If you're unlucky enough to get behind someone who kicks up a bunch of sand or has a regulator issue or floods/loses a mask or who loses buoyancy control and gets stuck to the ceiling or panics...well...you're in a bit of a pickle because you've got other divers behind you in a conga line. In certain cases, you might have to just shove the troubled diver out the exit. Not my idea of fun.

I think it's a lot like diving Florida caves. What is there to see in them?

Wet rocks.

You either get it or you don't.

For those who get it, it is just plain fun. I will do every swim through I can when I am there, and I don't care how much the guy in front of me kicks it up--the coarse sand settles almost immediately. Go in last and there is no conga line behind you.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I think it's a lot like diving Florida caves. What is there to see in them?

Wet rocks.

You either get it or you don't.

I wouldn't equate a Cozumel swim-through with Florida cave diving. After all, there's actually something to see in a cave: stalactites, stalacmites, domes, interesting rock structure, fossils, artifacts, etc.

For those who get it, it is just plain fun. I will do every swim through I can when I am there, and I don't care how much the guy in front of me kicks it up--the coarse sand settles almost immediately. Go in last and there is no conga line behind you.

What do you do if your buddy feels the same way about wanting to be last in the conga line? I ask this half in jest...but half seriously, too. My girlfriend feels the same way I do about not wanting to get stuck in the middle of the conga line. In most cases, I'll only do them if I can maintain access to an "exit" by being last. On my one trip to Cozumel, I had more than one experience of the newbie in front of me getting stuck for a few seconds. It's not a fun feeling to stop and wait and hope that the newbie can get it together enough to continue forward. I recall another instance in which the person behind me was pushing me rather insistently. Later on, I found out that he had flooded his mask, was on the verge of panic, and just wanted to get out quickly. We also had one beginner diver sustain a nasty laceration on the top of his head from a swim-through. Not good.

 

[DandyDon]

On a side note, I really don't know why divers enjoy doing the swim-throughs in Cozumel so much. There's nothing to see in there.

I like 98% of your post anyway, as usual for yours. I don't care for Coz swim thrus but then - if one has time, one might look around with a light to see what is hiding on the walls? Except you'll be in the way of the following divers unless you're last, and then you'll become the lost divers in the group. All in all, yeah - swim over them and meet the DM on the other end.