Well, that was a new one...

[fisheyeview]

While I feel I understand the pros and cons of alternate configurations (long primary and bungied second), I still have reservations. While I have little experience with panicked divers, I have had experience with panicked swimmers (lifeguard), so I know pretty well how incoherent and erratic a victim can be. That said, I still find it marginal that a diver in need will automatically go for the primary. Of course, a truly panicked diver might, providing the donor doesn't see the victim coming first and have the octo out and offered, but is this the norm? The question was asked whether it would be as easy for a victim to locate and deploy my octo. It is mounted on my chest about eight inches from my primary, is bright yellow, and is on a 40 inch yellow hose, so it shouldn't be that hard to find or acquire. Finally, something has always bothered me about the long hose/bungied second deployment. Namely, when the victim takes the donor's primary who then switches to their second...isn't there a second or so when BOTH victim and donor are essentially OOA? Granted, it's only a moment or two, but there is a brief period when neither diver has a functioning reg in their mouth. Of course, some will say the donor should be able to see the victim coming, remove their primary and offer it, duck their head and acquire the second in time. However, to my way of thinking, he could just as easily offer the octo and not ever break his access to air.
Please understand, I'm not being argumentative. I fully understand there are alternate configurations and they have many proponents. I'm just not sure that they are inherently superior for the diving I do.
Thanks to everyone for the input. I appreciate all views (well, those that were insightful and relevant to the discussion anyway).

I have had this happen to me. I was working with an OW class when an OOA diver swam over to me and pulled the reg right out of my mouth. I never saw her coming at me. And before anyone asks, she was a certified diver that was not with us.

 

[Cave Diver]

Whatever. I wasn't mocking the gear configuration anyway. I was mocking all of the DIR elitists that chime in here all the time with "You're going to die if..." nonsense. Honestly, when it comes to DIR I cheerfully admit that I DON'T know what I'm talking about.

Most of those comments that I see made stating "You're gonnna die..." come from non/anti DIR people.

With one or two exceptions, most of the DIR people I know are much more likely to just walk away shaking their heads than to tell a stranger they're gonna die for having their long hose bungied. Your experiences may vary.

 

[fisheyeview]

Most of those comments that I see made stating "You're gonnna die..." come from non/anti DIR people.

With one or two exceptions, most of the DIR people I know are much more likely to just walk away shaking their heads than to tell a stranger they're gonna die for having their long hose bungied. Your experiences may vary.

I am not DIR, but those DIR people that I know are great to dive with. They have never given me grief about my not being DIR before. Well they did rib me about my "poodle jacket" before I got my BP/W.

 

[Cave Diver]

The mouthpiece was gone...well, rather the mouthpiece was still in my mouth; it had simply come off my reg. No biggie...I just switched my octo and we terminated the dive to make the repair.
I only mention this because it is one of the few times I've ever had to resort to an octo. Every once in a while here on SB, there is discussion of gear configurations and the term "fumbling for the octo" comes up, usually when folks talk about long hoses, necklaced octos and such. Question...does anyone actually "fumble" for their octo, or do we not know where to find it? Mine was right where it was supposed to be for my gear config...right upper quadrant on a quick pull attachment.
Still, an interesting incident for me.

I've had similar situations occur on two different dives for different reasons. Immediately realized what was wrong and switched to backup reg. Practice and training goes a long way. I sometimes switch to backup reg during a dive just to use it for a bit.

 

[Guba]

I sometimes switch to backup reg during a dive just to use it for a bit.


(psst...me, too, Cave Diver. That's why I knew exactly where to look for it. Works, doesn't it?)

 

[Cave Diver]

I sometimes switch to backup reg during a dive just to use it for a bit.


(psst...me, too, Cave Diver. That's why I knew exactly where to look for it. Works, doesn't it?)

Indeed!

 

[IslandFrog]

Guba,

Next time we dive together, why don't you try out my long hose/bungied second setup and see how you like it?

Sorry I couldn't make it to the the lake with you guys. Sounds like it was a great way to spend a day! I have a couple of people anxious to go this coming Sunday out to CSSP. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[CalgaryDF]

Experience, that is. I was diving the bottom of a pretty murky lake (vis was only about 2-3 feet) with a buddy, and the "mission" was to search for "treasure"...the cove is a popular party-boater destination and things get lost a lot (has something to do with the amount of alcohol in the water, I'm told). Anyway, we were cruising in a heads down trim in order to avoid stirring the silt when I suddenly had a blast of bubbles in my face. I was momentarily confused because it didn't appear to be a freeflow, then I saw my reg just below my mask. The mouthpiece was gone...well, rather the mouthpiece was still in my mouth; it had simply come off my reg. No biggie...I just switched my octo and we terminated the dive to make the repair.
I only mention this because it is one of the few times I've ever had to resort to an octo. Every once in a while here on SB, there is discussion of gear configurations and the term "fumbling for the octo" comes up, usually when folks talk about long hoses, necklaced octos and such. Question...does anyone actually "fumble" for their octo, or do we not know where to find it? Mine was right where it was supposed to be for my gear config...right upper quadrant on a quick pull attachment.
Still, an interesting incident for me.

I was on a dive in Belize when one of the divers lost their primary for some reason ( I think she may have ran into the wall or something) when she went to switch to her octo the mouthpiece stayed in the holder as she pulled the rest of it out. Thankfully the two DM's did a great job of getting to her quickly as it looked like she was a getting a little panicky.

It seems like the zip ties are way more susceptible to coming apart that it seems. Maybe they should put more than one in the package when you buy a new mouthpiece.

The fumbling for octos seems to occur when they are not well secured or you are unfamiliar with the gear. As long as you know where the octo is and another diver can easily get to it, I don't think it matters where you secure the octo.

 

[Guba]

Hey Brad
Much obliged for the offer amigo! I may do that when we have our next dive outing. You may remember that I quizzed you a bit on the system at CSSP a week or so ago, and I've been wondering about it for some time now. I'm certainly not opposed to the arrangement, by any means.

 

[Hoomi]

Just kind of a dumb observation here, but if by some odd circumstances my primary failed, and then the mouthpiece came off my secondary, it seems to me that, while it would not be ideal, the octo reg is going to work with or without the mouthpiece. If I need that air, I can hold that reg to my mouth and wrap my lips around the bare flange on the reg. The mouthpiece makes it easier to hold with our teeth and seal our lips around, but the reg is still going to deliver air.

Heck; if you're carrying a zip tie in your pocket, you could fix the loose mouthpiece right there at the bottom while using the alternate air source, and go right ahead with the dive.

I probably have a dozen or more zip-ties in our Save-a-Dive kit, and I might just go ahead and stuff a couple in my BC.