Whaling: Right or Wrong?

[Diver Dennis]

I'm curious...what has shark finning got to do with whaling? AFAIK the whaling nations don't eat shark fins :06:

Just a post to let everyone know that other species are at risk as well. Perhaps a broader view of the ocean might be in order.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

As for unbiased research, I try to discard extreme position. It goes as well for Greenpeace as for the whaling industry. WWF (not the world wrestling federation here but the wildlife one), PETA and the like are other sources I dont trust. This would also include political government involved in whaling fisheries (Japan, Russia and Norway). Politicians have other interests than only environmental ones.

(My enhancement)

I can understand this, also regarding political governments. Although it is not our "political government" nor the whalers' own research that contributes to stock estimates. I dare say we have pretty indepentent research, which even if financed by the state doesn't by far come up with the conclusions some of our national pro-whaling politicians would prefer.

After so many years of conservative stock estimates I feel we have a pretty good picture of what the situation is for our minkes out in the ocean. This research is not something that has been cought up in the past months to provide an "alibi" for our whaling industry. It is the result of intense monitoring thru the past 25 years.

 

[wardric]

are you going to rely on that are completely unbiased? Discarding industry, activist, and governmental research information is going to leave you with a very reduced dataset.

Assuming you can create a pool of perfectly non-biased data (not sure such a thing even exists) to digest, do you have any way to statistically evaluate them. How will you interpret data for population dynamics, sustainability of specific marine mammal stocks, effects of various proposed harvesting pressures, contaminant loading in prey species affecting reproductive rates, etc etc etc, these and a multitude of other factors all need to be considered.

Whaling is completely unnecessary, that is a certainty. There are no essential products that whaling provides the world economy that cannot be obtained from other organic or synthetic sources. The miniscule number of global jobs created by whaling has virtually no impact on any nation's labor/unemployment issues. There are probably more blacksmiths on the planet than whalers.

Countries want to continue whaling simply because it is another profitable means of exploiting marine resources. No more, no less. If the pro-whaling factions can successfully demonstrate that stocks can support harvesting, it'll happen.

No, you are right, I would not have much info then. I didn't say completely unbiased, I said I discard the conclusions of the extremists, not of all the biased sources. but maybe I wasn't that clear about it after all.

There are no essential products that the cows or pigs provides the world economy that cannot be obtained from other organic or synthetic sources either. So what do we do, stop eating those as well? The thing is not to put our eggs in the same basket.
Diversify our ressources, wheter it be energy or food. Balance it all a bit.

 

[wardric]

(My enhancement)

I can understand this, also regarding political governments. Although it is not our "political government" nor the whalers' own research that contributes to stock estimates. I dare say we have pretty indepentent research, which even if financed by the state doesn't by far come up with the conclusions some of our national pro-whaling politicians would prefer.

After so many years of conservative stock estimates I feel we have a pretty good picture of what the situation is for our minkes out in the ocean. This research is not something that has been cought up in the past months to provide an "alibi" for our whaling industry. It is the result of intense monitoring thru the past 25 years.

Thanks for the precision

 

[cyklon_300]

There are no essential products that the cows or pigs provides the world economy that cannot be obtained from other organic or synthetic sources either.

are not listed as threatened/endangered species.

Here's another reason to re-consider making whale meat a mainstay of your diet.

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2003/111-14/forum.html#merc

 

[wardric]

are not listed as threatened/endangered species.

Here's another reason to re-consider making whale meat a mainstay of your diet.

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2003/111-14/forum.html#merc

people dont read...

Do I have to repeat or quote myself?

In my earlier posts, I always said that I dont mind the hunting of whales if they are not a threatened/endangered species. If I have the proof that minkes or another species is abundant and has a healty population, I wouldn't mind their hunting acording to strict quotas and regulations. If not, then I support their Full protection.

Hope I wont have to repeat it, it's tiresome.

 

[wardric]

are not listed as threatened/endangered species.

Here's another reason to re-consider making whale meat a mainstay of your diet.

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2003/111-14/forum.html#merc

Thanks for the link.

Mercury and other toxic substances have destroyed the belugas here so I'm not that surprised about that info.

It is so ironic. People will stop eating and then hunting whales because of their mercury content but the whales will die of mercury and other heavy metals contamination.

 

[Green Hand]

Countries want to continue whaling simply because it is another profitable means of exploiting marine resources. No more, no less. If the pro-whaling factions can successfully demonstrate that stocks can support harvesting, it'll happen.

For many Asian cultures history, tradition, religion, and social behaviour are extremely important factors - as is 'saving face'.

The issue being discussed here, including shark finning, is not a financial arguement, it is one of culture, beliefs, and historical behaviour.

The Japanese are a very proud and traditional nation and they are certainly not going to stop a traditional practice simply because other countries tell them too - and as the second most powerful economy in the World, they have the financial clout to back up their actions.

Personnally I am more concerned with the growth in shark finning. Chinese cultures are not in a hurry to ban their citizens from a traditional behaviour [what Government wants to be unpopular?] for the same reasons as I touched on above.

We all need to discuss cultural differences and try to understand, and at times influence, each other. For example, in Hindu cultures you never point the underside of your feet towards someone, in Muslim cultures you never touch the top of a persons head, and in Japan they find it very distressing that a person would take a perfectly clean hanky from their pocket, empty the contents of their nose into it and then place the hanky back in their pocket.

We are [thank God] all different and can all learn from each other - and hopefully positively influence each other when the balance of our shared World is involved.

As a closing comment - I dont like the Amazon rainforest beening cleared for farming, but sitting at my laptop, in my comfortable office, in my first world economy [much of it gained from land clearing practices] it is pretty hypocritical saying Brazilian farmers cant realise the value of their natural resources because I dont want the rain forest cut down. If first world economies seriously wanted to cease this practice they should financially compensate each farmer for the land, xx number of years of future earnings, and also finance the establishment of alternative sustainable enterprises.

Personally I hate whaling - but I am not from a culture where it has been practiced for centuries.

It is a very complex argument.

 

[fsatre]

Hello.

My first post here in this forum. I've read the entire thread about whaling.
First of all I’m surprised there haven’t bin more personal attacks, sounds like most users here know their manners.

The reason for my post is that most figures about the number of minke whales in the North Sea have bin wrong. The report of official study made by the Norwegian Institute of Marine Research (http://www.imr.no/) are found here
http://www.imr.no/__data/page/3859/...ke_whales_for_the_survey_period_1996-2001.pdf

http://www.imr.no/__data/page/4631/2.8_Hval.pdf
Is a updated version to 2004, and of course in Norwegian. I have tried to find it in English but not bin lucky so far. The summary is in English. So I give it here
“Minke whales in the Northeast Atlantic are commercially exploited by Norway. The management of this species is based on application of the Revised Management Procedure (RMP) developed by the Scientific Committee of the International Whaling Commission. The input to this procedure is catch statistics and absolute abundance estimates. The total quota for 2004 is 670 animals. The quota for 2003 was 711 minke whales, of which 646 were caught. The present quotas are based on abundance estimates calculated from surveys conducted in 1989, 1995 and 1996-2001. The most recent estimate (1996-2001) for the Northeastern stock of minke whales is 80,500 animals, in addition to 26,700 animals for the Jan Mayen area, which is also used by Norwegian whalers. “
The document also give a precise number of the quota for Norwegian whalers and number of mink whales taken, figure 2.8.1.

There have also bin some post about the diet of the minke whale. Again the research of the Norwegian Institute of Marine research have published one of their papers
http://www.imr.no/__data/page/3859/...ts_in_the_Norwegian_Sea_and_the_North_Sea.pdf

Frode

 

[jbilicska]

Thanks for the info and the informative articles.
Joe B