What a disappointment

[Bismark]

Hi again Ivan,

I kind of get the impression that you think GUE trained divers are some kind of jedi knights of the underwater world. While the standard of instruction is excellent, and it will forever change the way you dive, it is not some sort of secret club that won't share it's "secrets" with anyone who doesn't join the club. Nothing GUE does is brand new. They didn't invent the back kick or the BP/W. The only thing they have done is assemble several different things into a holistic system to make your diving safer and thus more enjoyable. What is it you would like to learn? What would you like to add to your diving? Ask those questions on this board and 99 percent of GUE trained divers would be more than happy to steer you in the right direction to help you. If you want to learn to back kick (which is a hugely useful skill) you are probably going to find it easiest to do so with a non -split fin like a jet fin. If you want to remain horizontal in the water, you will find it easier particularly as a beginner, (which you are in reality, (so am I) with a BP/W. If you want to learn about just about any aspect of DIR or GUE, we will be absolutely too happy to help. It really did change the way I dive and the way I want to dive and what do they say about the most recent converts making the best advocates ? Nobody is trying to keep you out of a secret club and not share with you. It is just that the GUE standards are what they are, (for some of the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post) and you need to meet them to do GUE training. Just like you can't be a PADI rescue diver without O2 and first aid training. You can't really complain that PADI is making it harder for people who just don't want to take O2 training so they can't become a rescue diver. However, there are alternative methods to learn the skills involved in that course. So, what do you want to know?

 

[ivan73]

Hi Bismark,

No I do not think that DIR divers are some kind of jedis. You're question what do I want to know is not such a nice question, in a sense that, as you said I'm a complete rookie, so I was just hoping from GUE instructor to show me new stuff which would have helped me to improve my diving. So what are new stuff? All the skills (s-drill, valve drill), briefing, debriefing, gearing are all things you can find on this forum but practice is the only think that can help you improve. Buoyancy is also something I wished an GUE instructor tells me how to improve. But nothing is impossible even without GUE-F so it'll just take more time.

Anyway as I said from the beginning I'm not trying to change anything I just do not understand why some of your teaching is not open for people that won't adopt DIR philosophy. But probably the answer is in my question, and you are going to tell me for DIR divers is a approach in all segments (gear, skills, body), so either you take a package or nothing. I say it's a pity not to accept different people for your classes, maybe when they see how you do it they'll adopt it, or maybe not.

 

[limeyx]

Why is everyone flaming this guy? All he wants to do is take a class.

If it was me I would call the instructor back and tell him you quit smoking. If you can live without smoking for the duration of the class you will be fine. Maybe you actually will be able to quit.

I believe in honesty unless the expectations are idiotic.

You think allowing smokers to dive is somehow an OK thing?

This whole thread is bordering on the retarded.

You "believe in honesty except when it benefits you to lie" is what you are saying.

I would warrant that it's pretty well known that smoking and diving do not mix (even for recreational diving). Add to that, that the GUE standards explicitly state no smoking (for students *or* instructors) and what else do you need to know?

Either give it up (for real, not just "let's pretend for a weekend" ) or try a different sport/activity

honestly.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I'm not GUE but it has nothing to do with what class a person is in, it has to do with the health risk of smoking. To me, that is not discrimination, that is looking out for the student. You're only smoking 3-5 a day, so it is not far from not smoking at all.

 

[TSandM]

If you are specifically interested in the skills, you can get them from a cavern class, or from some technical courses, and those would not require you to quit smoking.

DIR is a holistic system. I've said that before, and they say it, and it's true, and it gets very little attention in what people generally write. They have set the parameters for their system, which is their right. They are not interested in teaching part of the system. The parts are available elsewhere.

 

[MonkSeal]

They are not interested in teaching part of the system. The parts are available elsewhere.

I guess this is the most precise answer in this thread.

 

[jeckyll]

They are up front about the rules. They are GUE's rules. You don't meet them, you don't pay in their sandbox.

*shrug*

Life goes on. More diving, less whining

 

[b1gcountry]

Can anybody tell me what the real fitness requirements are for taking the DIR-Fun class? Someone said the requirement was to swim 300meters in 14 minutes; is this accurate? If it is, that comes out to 6 laps in the pool at a 2:20 pace per lap. This seems ridiculously slow. Even with a backstroke, I can average about a minute a lap.

GUE can do what they want in terms of requirements for their classes, and I like the fact that someone is making higher fitness requirements in their dive classes... But to rule out all smokers, and to accept someone who takes 14 minutes to swim 300 meters is pretty out of balance. To put things in perspective, the requirement when I took my lifeguard certification was to swim 200 meters in 3:30. I did it in around 3:17, but some guys were down in the 2:20 range.

Tom
BTW, this was the lifeguard cert for the City of Chicago, which had pretty high standards at the time.

 

[dsteding]

GUE can do what they want in terms of requirements for their classes, and I like the fact that someone is making higher fitness requirements in their dive classes... But to rule out all smokers, and to accept someone who takes 14 minutes to swim 300 meters is pretty out of balance. To put things in perspective, the requirement when I took my lifeguard certification was to swim 200 meters in 3:30. I did it in around 3:17, but some guys were down in the 2:20 range.

Tom
BTW, this was the lifeguard cert for the City of Chicago, which had pretty high standards at the time.

The smoking issues isn't about fitness per se, it is about the physiological effects of smoking and diving. GUE has made a decision that they do not want the risks associated with smoking and diving in their training programs, and believe it has no part in their holisitic approach to diving.

FWIW, they also ask your height and weight, and require you to fill out a fairly comprehensive medical questionnaire.

GUE-F is ultimately the first step into tech training to a certain degree. Granted, there is now a more well-defined recreational curriculum in the works, but I don't think anyone would dispute the need for good physical fitness if you are doing deco dives. With that in mind, I don't see the no smoking or the physical fitness requirements as unreasonable (even if the swim test isn't as rigorous as your lifeguard test).

 

[LG Diver]

Can anybody tell me what the real fitness requirements are for taking the DIR-Fun class? Someone said the requirement was to swim 300meters in 14 minutes; is this accurate? If it is, that comes out to 6 laps in the pool at a 2:20 pace per lap. This seems ridiculously slow. Even with a backstroke, I can average about a minute a lap.

GUE can do what they want in terms of requirements for their classes, and I like the fact that someone is making higher fitness requirements in their dive classes... But to rule out all smokers, and to accept someone who takes 14 minutes to swim 300 meters is pretty out of balance. To put things in perspective, the requirement when I took my lifeguard certification was to swim 200 meters in 3:30. I did it in around 3:17, but some guys were down in the 2:20 range.

Tom
BTW, this was the lifeguard cert for the City of Chicago, which had pretty high standards at the time.

For someone that swims regularly and has had some formal coaching in swim technique, I'd agree that this is a ridiculously slow pace. However, it's entirely possible that someone can be in tremendous physical condition and never have swam competitively and really struggle to break 2min/100m. I know- I've been there. I entered triathlon from a cycling background several years ago. I was in very good physical condition, but this means very little in being able to swim fast. It took me a very long time to get comfortable and efficient in the water, but even today I have no hope of getting near 1min/100m.

That said, I don't think there's any real direct correlation between being a technically sound and efficient swimmer and being fit as it relates to diving. For being a lifeguard I can see how this would be much more important. Personally, I think the fitness test should be something that is much less technique-reliant and more universally indicative of fitness level, like running. Maybe a 3 mile run in under xx minutes (no I won't offer an opinion on time limit).