What does certification REALLY mean?

[jviehe]

And this point, that AOW moves you along, is exactly why I recommend taking it the week after OW. And Rescue the week after that. Whatever the actual schedule, take them as quickly as possible.

These classes provide advancement along the path of training. Take as many classes as possible, as quickly as possible. Get as many supervised dives as possible as soon as possible. All combined they won't make you an expert or even very experienced. But they will provide some exposure to the scope of diving. OW certification, with 4 dives (mostly doing school exercises), is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things.

If people admire the Scripps 100 Hour program or the GUE Rec 1 Diver program (and I do) then they should also recognize that taking OW, AOW, 5 swimming specialties (detailed elsewhere) and Rescue provides a similar level of training. It is unfortunate that it isn't a planned, structured and cohesive program but, unless you can get the Scripps or GUE program, it's about as good as you will get.

Then go diving to get the experience for which you have been trained.

Richard

I wouldnt say OW is pretty meaningless, however. Its goal is to teach you basic safety information and give you some introductory experience. In most cases that is plenty to get you on your way. Diving is not rocket science. Keep in mind most divers do not frequent scubaboard. They dive once a year on vacation with a divemaster somewhere shallow, warm, and clear. OW is enough for them, and this why it is the way it is.

 

[rstofer]

I wouldnt say OW is pretty meaningless, however. Its goal is to teach you basic safety information and give you some introductory experience.

It seems to me that, of the 4 dives, only the last has any 'diving' involved. As I watched the last couple of classes, the first 3 dives are primarily pool exercises done in the ocean. Now, I don't have the check list but that's the way it seemed to me.

So, at the end of OW, there hasn't been a whole lot of diving. The required skill set has been demonstrated, no question about that. And the skills are important. But there hasn't been much diving. Or at least the part of diving where you swim around and look at things.

Now, with AOW, the diving really begins. Navigation will be more than a simple 'out and back' but the student will actually have time to see things. Sure, they have to watch the compass and count kicks but they still get to look around.

Buoyancy is an important topic but is really just an exercise. Still, there might be an opportunity to swim around, gliding over the reef.

The night dive will teach skills (herding cats comes to mind) but there are a lot of things to see while actually diving.

The deep dive isn't very deep but, if viz is good, there can be a great demonstration of the colors turning to dark brown at various depths. And let's not forget the ever popular collapsing soda bottle or expanding balloon. We used colored tape on a slate to demonstrate the change in colors. The deep dive is usually short but there still could be some time to see things.

I'm not sure what is involved with the other 2 dives but, around here, 3 of the 5 AOW dives are boat dives. The good news is that you don't waste a lot of time and energy kicking out a couple of hundred yards.

I realize that instructors have different ways of teaching the material. But, as I look back at my training, it seems to me that diving didn't really start until OW II (NAUI) and by the end of Advanced Open Water, diving was more about having fun doing things underwater than it was about just doing exercises.

I'm sure others will have a different view.

Richard

 

[Walter]

It seems to me that, of the 4 dives, only the last has any 'diving' involved. As I watched the last couple of classes, the first 3 dives are primarily pool exercises done in the ocean. Now, I don't have the check list but that's the way it seemed to me.

All too often, that's exactly the way check out dives are conducted. I like just taking my students for a dive and from time to time signalling to them to do the skills on which I'm testing them. They can flood and clear a mask as we swim along. They can do OOA drills as we swim along. There's no reason to let skills testing stop everyone from having fun dives.

 

[wreckchick]

<snip>
So, at the end of OW, there hasn't been a whole lot of diving. The required skill set has been demonstrated, no question about that. And the skills are important. But there hasn't been much diving. Or at least the part of diving where you swim around and look at things.

Now, with AOW, the diving really begins. Navigation will be more than a simple 'out and back' but the student will actually have time to see things. Sure, they have to watch the compass and count kicks but they still get to look around.

What you are describing is bad training. If OW students aren't diving, they aren't learning how to dive.

Buoyancy is an important topic but is really just an exercise.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Just... wrong. No. Non. Nyet. Ix-nay...

Buoyancy IS diving. It is not an exercise, it is not something you carve time out of a dive to practice. It is not a fin pivot or a Buddha-style hover. It is not something you should be choosing to turn on and off. It is the very essence of diving itself. If you consider that diving and buoyancy are separate things, you need to go ask someone for a refund. If you believe that you can be a 'good' diver without have unconscious buoyancy control, you are very gravely mistaken.

The night dive will teach skills (herding cats comes to mind) but there are a lot of things to see while actually diving.

Are you the one doing the herding or being herded? If you're being herded you have no business diving at night.

And this point, that AOW moves you along, is exactly why I recommend taking it the week after OW. And Rescue the week after that. Whatever the actual schedule, take them as quickly as possible.

No one with 9 total dives under instructor supervision would ever pass my rescue class nor should they. Rescue should be a goal as soon as people are ready, but if you pass it with no diving outside of OW and AOW you got gypped.

Rachel

 

[NudeDiver]

I didn't say it doesn't provide access, just that it is meaningless.

Not necessarily. On some boats and some dives, an AOW cert means you have access.

A comparable course today would undoubtedly be in the neighborhood of $1,500 in current dollars. Obviously such a price tag would eliminate many who wished to take up diving.

The way some people talk on here, that would be a good thing.

As funny as it may sound I have heard of shops saying that they could not sell air to a person because he did not have his C-Card. Another diver would come in and say I will fill it for you (Right in front of the sales man) and show his card. The person at the counter would know that it was for the one who did not have his card yet still filled it.

If you do that with cigarettes or beer, they're supposed to refuse to sell to the second person and/or call the police.

 

[jviehe]

It seems to me that, of the 4 dives, only the last has any 'diving' involved. As I watched the last couple of classes, the first 3 dives are primarily pool exercises done in the ocean. Now, I don't have the check list but that's the way it seemed to me.

So, at the end of OW, there hasn't been a whole lot of diving. The required skill set has been demonstrated, no question about that. And the skills are important. But there hasn't been much diving. Or at least the part of diving where you swim around and look at things.

As walter said, this is just bad teaching, and I have no doubt many instructors do it that way. I dont beleive its the intent of the course however, and the standards dont encourage it. They encourage experience and fun. But yes AOW broadens this which is why its good to take it soon after OW. It also good for divers to try a few dives on their own in good conditions.

 

[rstofer]

As walter said, this is just bad teaching, and I have no doubt many instructors do it that way.

I like Walter's approach. More about diving (swimming around) with a little mask drill thrown in. Of the divers I have watched being trained (including myself), OW I was not taught that way. There is no question it will produce a better diver. But I fear it is far from a universal approach.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

Buoyancy IS diving. It is not an exercise, it is not something you carve time out of a dive to practice. It is not a fin pivot or a Buddha-style hover. It is not something you should be choosing to turn on and off. It is the very essence of diving itself. If you consider that diving and buoyancy are separate things, you need to go ask someone for a refund. If you believe that you can be a 'good' diver without have unconscious buoyancy control, you are very gravely mistaken.

I agree that buoyancy is critical to diving. I also agree it is the very essence of diving. But it is taught as an exercise. Get neutral, hover in position, change depths, that kind of thing. An exercise. There may, or may not, be any swimming (sightseeing, diving) involved. In a perfect world, the instructors would work throughout a dive (swimming) to help improve a student's buoyancy. I don't see it done that way. But, again, there are exceptional instructors that may do just that.

Are you the one doing the herding or being herded? If you're being herded you have no business diving at night.

As an AOW diver doing their 7th dive and 1st night dive, I would suspect they are being herded. They certainly aren't leading the dive.

No one with 9 total dives under instructor supervision would ever pass my rescue class nor should they. Rescue should be a goal as soon as people are ready, but if you pass it with no diving outside of OW and AOW you got gypped.

Rachel

Why is that? Are you saying a physically fit, former poster child for the Marine Corp with more than adequate diving skills is incapable of passing your class? I know that diver (it's not me) and I would expect him to be more than capable after as few as 9 dives. But, it's your class, whatever you say...

In the same way we are expected to accept the existence of exceptional instructors, we should also be willing to accept the existence of exceptional students.

But, whatever... It's your class.

Richard

 

[ScubaSteve]

I agree that buoyancy is critical to diving......In a perfect world, the instructors would work throughout a dive (swimming) to help improve a student's buoyancy. I don't see it done that way.

...............

I know that diver (it's not me) and I would expect him to be more than capable after as few as 9 dives........

To play the devil's advocate here, you argue that buoyancy is not taught nor learned in OW which is one reason for you recommending going on to AOW right away and then on to Rescue. However, by your very same logic, can you really say that someone is qualified to pass all Rescue skills when they are incapable of controlling their own buoyancy or other skils that require refining and building on? And if the answer is that they are likely not qualified, the advice to roll through them all is just taking advantage of the student for money. I am not arguing either way, just pointing out conflicting arguments.

.......As an AOW diver doing their 7th dive and 1st night dive, I would suspect they are being herded. They certainly aren't leading the dive............

While I am not a fan of ANY student taking AOW in quick succession after OW (and always say develop your skills as an OW prior to moving on, your argument above is absolutely unfounded. I did my first night dive with my AOW. There was no herding because the ratio was 1 to 1 for staff divers to students. This is not always the case, but the blanket statement that you made is therefore false.

 

[NudeDiver]

While I am not a fan of ANY student taking AOW in quick succession after OW...

I just disagree with that. I think it's the best time to take it. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, they should just combine them into one course and call the resulting certification "Scuba Diver" (yeah...I know). The actual contents of the AOW class are pretty useless - but the opportunity to have five more dives under the close supervision of an instructor is just want a new OW can use. It's the best time to do it! If you wait until later, until, say, after one has 100 dives - or even 50 dives, then there is very little gained from the AOW class - certainly relative to what is gained by taking it right away. I think people are just too hung up on the word "advanced" - which is really unfortunate.

Oddly - so many people think that divers should take rescue diver at the first opportunity. I don't really get it. It's hard to be an effective rescue diver when you are still trying to get "above average" with your basic skills. I'd like to see a required 50 dive minimum before taking RD myself.