"What if ..?"

[Blackwood]

- This year while doing a cavern dive in a mexican cenote I got talking to the cave instructor. He obviously dives 3rds, and his emergency gas reserve is his buddies. But he did tell me that if he gets in this situation and his buddy is a 'breather' he'll close the isolator valve on his doubles. His buddy is entitled to his half of the emergency 3rd but not more.

If he shuts his isolator, he's giving his buddy a full third, not a sixth.

 

[Codiak]

- I know an instructor who states the following: I'll try my utmost to rescue my buddy up to 50m below that it's his ball game and I'll let go.

I've heard the same from more than one diver and I believe they are all deadly serious.

I think it's the difference between Rec and Tech, or amature vs pro... if your belowe 132 you were suppose to have Plan Bs and Gas management figured-out long ago and hello Darwin.

For me it would boil down to how I accessed the "you, me or both" equation at the time. Bent is better than dead but I have not issue with ruthless choices

I use to pose a question to life guard canidits... "If I was the active victim would you save me... those who said yes failed the course."

"One death is an terrible, two deaths is a tragedy"

 

[TSandM]

I have thought about this, especially after the fatality at Ginnie a couple of months ago.

I'm with Walter. I would have to try. We can skip-breathe, we can hope to encounter other divers . . . I don't know how I would live with gathering my skirts and fleeing and leaving my buddy to die.

I think this kind of issue lurks in the back of my mind, and is part of the reason why I have been quite content to keep my cave diving pretty conservative.

After I wrote the above, I did have one other thought . . . If the situation was caused by someone doing something inexcusably stupid (for example, someone refusing to honor the thumb and continuing into the cave) I might be angry enough to save myself at their expense. No one I have ever dived with so far would do something like that, but I have done some cave dives with people I didn't previously know or dive with outside of a cave, and I suppose I have taken that risk without thinking that much about it.

 

[LiteHedded]

I'm sure my buddy would have some say over whether or not I head to the door without him

 

[Walter]

If the situation was caused by someone doing something inexcusably stupid (for example, someone refusing to honor the thumb and continuing into the cave) I might be angry enough to save myself at their expense.

Even more basic than that, if they ignore me calling the dive, I wave bye bye to them right then. If they run out of air later, I won't be there to make the tough call.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'd give it the ol' college try. Maybe we would make it out. Its certainly worth a try to get everyone home safe. I'd ride the celing and try every trick I could thing of to move faster and reduce the sac rate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

- This year while doing a cavern dive in a mexican cenote I got talking to the cave instructor. He obviously dives 3rds, and his emergency gas reserve is his buddies. But he did tell me that if he gets in this situation and his buddy is a 'breather' he'll close the isolator valve on his doubles. His buddy is entitled to his half of the emergency 3rd but not more.

Hmmm ... I don't get this logic ... if he's diving with a heavy breather, they should be turning on the buddy's thirds ... not his ... in which case, he's gonna have plenty of reserve for the both of them.

After I wrote the above, I did have one other thought . . . If the situation was caused by someone doing something inexcusably stupid (for example, someone refusing to honor the thumb and continuing into the cave) I might be angry enough to save myself at their expense. No one I have ever dived with so far would do something like that, but I have done some cave dives with people I didn't previously know or dive with outside of a cave, and I suppose I have taken that risk without thinking that much about it.

If any dive buddy of mine refuses to honor a thumb, they are on their own right there and then ... whether or not there's an emergency. Thumb isn't negotiable ... either we both turn, or I do.

I'm sure my buddy would have some say over whether or not I head to the door without him

That's what I was thinking ... self-preservation is a powerful motivator, and it probably wouldn't be a simple matter of making the decision to leave your buddy behind ... they may well decide to take your air whether you want them to or not.

Sitting at your keyboard imagining this scenario is all well and good ... but having it happen in the real world would probably not much resemble what you imagined ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[irishsquid]

I wouldn't be there in the first place, but I'll play. Rescue classes and common sense tells us there's no point in two divers dying instead of one, you should leave your buddy to his fate. On the other hand, it was your screw up as much as your buddy's for not beginning your exit much sooner. Can you both slow your breathing enough to stretch the air to the exit? Will you encounter another team entering the cave as you exit? Either could save you both. I don't think I could leave my buddy. I gotta try.

Yeah, have to say I would try.
My main dive partner is my brother, who is also my life long BEST friend. No way I would/could abandon him. We both made a pact when we got certified together; if one doesn't make it back, both probably won't. I can't envision leaving my "little" brother to die!

...Sitting at your keyboard imagining this scenario is all well and good ... but having it happen in the real world would probably not much resemble what you imagined ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree whole-heartedly!

 

[Peter Guy]

I think Dr. Bill has the only real response -- I don't know what I'd do.

 

[Codiak]

If any dive buddy of mine refuses to honor a thumb, they are on their own right there and then ... whether or not there's an emergency. Thumb isn't negotiable ... either we both turn, or I do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

By the time someone is into tech diving "thumbing a dive" shouldn't be a issue any longer, neither the act of doing it OR honoring.

However, I do think thumbing a dive is one of the things that isn't reinforced enough in Rec diving. While its talked about in class room, it's quickly thrown out the window during the expensive pool time and peer pressure / egos get in the way during the OpenWater cert dives.

My first thumb was the one of the hardest things I've done. It got easier the second and by the third was no big thing. I was fortunate to be diving with people that handle each situation perfectly by just talking about the great dive we had and not once mentioning the thumb.