What is the point of certifications?

[danvolker]

There are many other "sports" that are more dangerous than ours. There are many other sports that have more expensive gear than ours.

There are not many sports that also have more expensive certifications.

We certify because?

I certified so that I could get gear that I want to use to go into the water.

Every dangerous activity has training for it, but not always required for ADULTS.

Every dangerous activity has safety gear, but it is not required all the time.

Every dangerous activity has the risk of death, and people do die.

Why am I certifying? Because someone figures that I have to do it.

Do I really need to know the whys when it comes to depth or speed of ascent/decent? No.

Is the diving community being too strict? Is it for monetary gain? Would we see the death rate skyrocket without the certification??

Maybe it is just another way of thinning the herd.



Just random thoughts.

In the 50's and 60's, when you could just buy the gear and dive---no instruction needed beyond the adage" don't hold your breath when ascending".....there was a tiny population of people that wanted to dive...they were a fairly stratified group, more like the James Bond character in Thunderball.....the divers of that day really were the adventurers--they already did MANY wildly adventurous sports, and they had all the right instincts for diving....for them, diving was a very EASY sport...

Diving is no harder today, but the "masses" are not made up of people that could play for the NFL, or that could be dropped 500 miles into the wilderness of Alaska or BC, and just walk out ....today's divers are accountants, and lawyers, and specialists in the office world. They don't have a lifetime of adventure sports and the instincts and moves that go with this. There are people today that could jump into diving in the same way it was done in the 50's and 60's....no problem....there just are not many of these, and today a very wide population base has it in their head that they want to try diving--not just the handful of adventurers....so how do you know you are in the 1 percent? That is the reason for certs today. Everyone that falls into the 99% that don't have the adventurer "gene" , needs the classes.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Adding to what Dan said, maybe the reliance on a certification system in diving also involves the fact that diving is deceptively easy and approachable. How hard can it be, right? The dive resorts and travel agents urge the masses to come on out and have a blast--their magazine advertising looks just like Sandals or Club Med or whatever. You can book such a trip with the click of a mouse. You can buy a complete set of gear with the click of a mouse. Breathing through a regulator underwater is not, by itself, at all difficult. It's deceptively easy. There are few real barriers to someone just getting in the water and giving it a try. If there were no certification system, you can bet that's exactly what many people would attempt. Most of them would not be the rugged adventurer type--the type who, today, are learning to rock climb and whatever sports today might be likened to the way diving was in the '50s and '60s. As diving has been made more approachable to the masses, there has been greater reliance on a certification system as a way to help shield dive op personnel against liability.

 

[jphehe]

This is actually a valid thread. Many questions beg to be explored.

Scuba diving is definitely of "high risk" (easily fatal) if not done right, and there are too many factors to make it so. When you run out of air alone, you face certain outcome. People have survived sky-diving accidents and plane crashes, but scuba diving? Not so much rooms for second chances. Those training agencies provide "consistent" training methods, so that we may know how much skill/knowledge/attitude you have been taught/learned.

As for the "problem" with certification itself, this industry right now looks like a monopoly itself. There are hardly decent scuba books available in bookstores. Most the time you have to pay to get to know their stuff.

Would it be better if -- just like some exams -- you can buy/borrow whatever study material you can find, then you go take the final exam when you feel ready?
Probably not, but at least it offers more freedom.

For example: getting a nitrox certs at the cost of about $200 is a ripoff. It is really about buying the book/knowledge, then your coach walks you through the key points. That's really it. You then do the dives to finish the session. If anything, it is more on the busine$$ side.

Another example, my coaches spent a week somewhere for tech training and when they came back they got extra 5 new tech certs. Awesome! Next thing you know: "We are open for tech training!!" LOL

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Leaving aside the issue of professional qualification, scuba ius what is called a "self policing" sport. Certifications present proof of at least minimum adequate training to engage in our sport, and the poijnt of training is to prepare and to allow divers to do more than go on the equivalent of guided tours under water. Because of legal liability to manifactures and providers of equipment, as well as dive boat operators, gear renters, and the like, certification allows those providers to rely on the presentation of certification credentials, to remove liability from them ( absent neglicgence on their part) and place it on the diver. That allows our sport to to be open and available world wide. The cedrtification system is not perfect, but it is a good thing compared to the absence of any sort of organizational standards for training and safety planning in diving. You can train for the kind of diving you want to do so that you can do it safely. As far as swimmer_spe's comment about not needing to know the "why's" of dive safety, that remark is ridiculous. You need to know the "why's to do safe dive planning, to identify DCS when it presents itself in you or a fellow diver, and to understand how equipment works ( and what it means when it malfunctions. I hope swimmer_spe will reconsider the value of learing what safe divers need to know without complaining about it. Safety and competence are neither silly nor a nuisance. If anything, the sense of scubaboard posters, particularly seasoned professionals, is that there should be more and/or better training, not less. I agree.
DivemasterDennis

 

[BDSC]

When I got my OW certification back in 91, my instructor actually told me NOT to take any more classes. Think about that for a minute. His advice was not to take additional classes. How vastly different is that from what you normally read on SB. His advice to me was to go diving ASAP while all the training he provided was fresh in my mind. So the very next weekend my buddy and I rented some gear and tanks and off to Florida we went to dive the areas of the springs and rivers that was appropriate for OW diving. Soon after I was in the Keys diving with some friends and then started diving off the coast of NC on a regular basis. I became hooked and purchased my own gear and have been diving ever since

I did ask him about other courses but his answer was basically this, "I have taught you skills and given you the basic knowledge you need to dive. What I can't give you is experience. That you have to earn. If you need any additional classes, I didn't do my job." Eventually I decided to get AOW because I was being told some operators want you to have it so I went back to my instructor and he said sure, no problem. He could see why someone would want that cert. We did that and basically just repeated dives I had already been doing. By the time I got my AOW, I had numerous wreck dives, night dives, cavern dives, dives to 100+ ft. etc. with no additonal classes. I believe my instructor was a top notch one. He gave me good fundamentals to build on and I have done that over the years. Now would I go cave diving without the course? Absolutely not. Some areas of diving I don't believe should be self taught and that is one of them although I'm sure that's exactly how the early guys did it before there was a course.


By in large I found recreational scuba diving to be pretty easy to learn and I still believe that to be the case. A good open water instructor and some common sense will take you a long way.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I think dive classes and certifications these days are a must. The 50's was a time of pioneering but society was a lot different then too, if you went out and hurt yourself you were on your own. There was no one to sue.
With that said, all of the classes I DM'd and students I helped I saw a lot of eye brow raising stuff passed by by the instructors. Passing someone who is completely overweight and out of shape, flailing everywhere, completely on edge the whole time and ready to bolt if one tiny thing goes wrong, eyes the size of saucers. They barely pass by the skin of their teeth. I don't think this does anybody any good. But, everybody passes as long as they can demonstrate the basic skills at least once. So they get on their best behavior and the most basic skills required are the max they can handle, but they do it so they get the card.

 

[BDSC]

With that said, all of the classes I DM'd and students I helped I saw a lot of eye brow raising stuff passed by by the instructors. Passing someone who is completely overweight and out of shape, flailing everywhere, completely on edge the whole time and ready to bolt if one tiny thing goes wrong, eyes the size of saucers. They barely pass by the skin of their teeth. I don't think this does anybody any good. But, everybody passes as long as they can demonstrate the basic skills at least once. So they get on their best behavior and the most basic skills required are the max they can handle, but they do it so they get the card.

And there lies a big problem with today's instruction. To easy to become and instructor and because of that there are plenty of bad instructors. Like the ones you described above.

 

[danvolker]

One of the many scary things you read on SB on a regular basis, is the guy that just got an OW cert, and now wants to take non-stop classes for the next several months to become a dive instructor. The scary thing is that this is allowed. Just one reason among many, that we have a large number of very poor instructors--people that never did much diving, but fulfilled all the requirements for the instructor cert.

 

[live&dive]

All kidding and trolling aside, certification doesn't necessarily equate competence. The forum has myriad number of threads attesting to how bad "those other divers" are. Certification provides a starting point to assuage powers that be that people who dive have some measure of training.

 

[diver 85]

For certain people(organizations)----->a way to make money......