What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?

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What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?


Well that term really does not apply, if you are refering to a card that may state that lol... Its more like an advanced license to learn. I have met some instructors that I still believe are not advanced divers. With that said I also believe that time away from this activity can cause many to revert back to passport divers... I think c-cards should have an experiation date on them just like 02 provider cards.

Well, to clarify ... I was not asking about a certification card. I was asking in the generic sense of the term "scuba diver".

The purpose of the question wasn't to ask about certifications ... or even necessarily to come up with a definition. It was to stimulate discussion.

Here's a corollary ... what kinds of topics do you think are appropriate for discussion in an Advanced Scuba Discussions forum?

After giving it some thought, I'm going to agree with Halemano that recreational solo diving would be an appropriate topic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Does a solo diver with 2000 dives who dives an unknown site alone fall into advanced? Not by my definition or most others.
Hmmm ... last year I did a 175-foot solo dive in a remote location I had only previously dived once ... to less than 100 feet. The water was 43 degrees and there was significant current.

You wouldn't call that an advanced dive?

Why not?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
what kinds of topics do you think are appropriate for discussion in an Advanced Scuba Discussions forum?

For me...

1) If the dive/skill/training/requirements are covered by a mainstream recreational scuba diving course*, then it's a 'basic scuba' discussion.

*As per main/major certifying agencies OW-Rescue, plus speciality courses without a training pre-requisite of more than two prior courses (i.e. OW + AOW) and/or more than 50 logged dives.

2) If the dive/skill/training/requirements are covered by a technical scuba diving course, or covered by the common definition of 'technical diving' then it's a 'technical diving' discussion.

3) If the dive/skill/training/requirements are covered by a professional level scuba diving course, then it's a 'going pro' or 'instructor' discussion.

4) If the dive/skill/training/requirements are beyond those covered by definition #1, but also not within the scope of definitions #2 and #3, then it's an 'advanced scuba' definition.
 
Does a solo diver with 2000 dives who dives an unknown site alone fall into advanced? Not by my definition or most others. Does a newly certified OW student who declines a dive because it's outside of his knowledge/undestanding fall into advanced. Yes because he did the right thing!!

We are talking about ones own accepted version of the definition. Hmmn, solo diver with 2000 dives go to unknown site. Sounds pretty normal to me. Is'nt that the point, to explore. Its not like were talking about going into a cave with absolutley no knowledge of. Its the ocean, its blue, temp varies, marine life varies, depth varies, to be quite honest someone with 2000 dives can probably handle any changes to location within their geographic region, with what ever gear they put those miles on with.
 
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Solo diving an unknown site is being a klutz don't care how you look at it. My point remains, skill alone is nothing without knowing whats safe or not. It's the skill alone approach that get divers in trouble.
 
Knowing what's safe is a skill... and it's pretty rare to hear of an accident report wherein the cause of death was "too much skill". This all reads like a logic trap from the episode "I Mudd" on Star Trek.

But really, why voice your opinion if you don't care about other peoples opinions as well. Seems a little one sided for a discussion forum. The dictate forum is just down the hall and to the left.
 
Solo diving an unknown site is being a klutz don't care how you look at it. My point remains, skill alone is nothing without knowing whats safe or not. It's the skill alone approach that get divers in trouble.


Any more klutzy than if two newly certified open water divers dove an unknown site?

Or even two experienced divers?

If you don't know the site, then you might not appreciate all the dangers - although superior experience and training would allow you to decipher the broad strokes before you get into the water.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't see how it differs between buddied or solo diving...
 
I participated only lightly in this thread because I as on an extended trip and following it on a tablet PC with a very klutzy interface with SB that made posting painful. During the trip I read Deep Descent, a book that detailed deaths diving the Andrea Doria, and I read Bringing Up the Dead, which detailed David Shaw's diving life and death. Both of them are filled with thought provoking information relevant to this thread, so much so that I don't know how to put my thoughts into a concise format. Both books talk about people doing dives that were arguably too advanced for them.

One obvious point is that whether one is advanced or not depends upon the context of the dive. In another thread, someone mentioned a sign of an advanced diver including being able to exit and enter in relatively rough surf. I have never even see a dive done under those circumstances, so I guess by that definition I cannot be an advanced diver. Before he did his record setting cave dive to a depth beyond 270 meters, I am pretty sure David Shaw had never done such a dive either, so I guess he was not an advanced diver, either. I wonder how many dives like that Sheck Exley did as well. (I don't know.) There are skills some relatively beginning dives use routinely because of where they dive that have never been used by many highly experienced divers around the world.

When I was an OW instructor with hundreds of dives, I thought I was a pretty advanced diver. Now, although I have full cave and trimix certifications, I consider myself something of a beginner diver. The context is everything.
 
Here is another thought related to the issue of safety and planning. Some have argued that the ability to plan a safe dive is the key component of the definition of a safe diver.

Before his last dive, David Shaw and a highly experienced tech instructor put together a huge team with the best equipment they could get. They had news coverage on site, and they had a chamber on site. They talked through every aspect of the dive over and over again. All divers on the team (I think there were 16) had specific jobs and knew to the minute when they were supposed to enter the water to do their parts. Shaw himself rehearsed every step of his role to make sure he could do everything within the very short bottom time he would have at 270 meters of depth. He had been to that depth before and knew his equipment could function there. (No one else could say that.) He was confident.

Two mistakes were made. One of them was very understandable and ultimately not serious, but the second was shocking and fatal. They were recovering a body they expected to be skeletal and negatively buoyant, but it had turned to soap within the wetsuit and floated, making the planned recovery process impossible. After the dive, experts explained the biological process, leading the surviving dive leader to ask where all that knowledge was before the dive. Still, once Shaw realized the problem, it was not fatal because he aborted the attempt at the appropriate pre-planned time limit.

That was where the second error came to play. During planning, they realized that the helmet camera he was wearing prevented him from doing what he normally did with his dive light when he needed to work with two hands: loop the cord over his neck. In the planning sessions, he decided that he would just let it dangle. When I read that, I almost shouted "What the H--- are you thinking?" His dive instructor friend (who got severe DCS on the dive when he tried to save Shaw) later said he never heard that part of the plan, or he would have nixed it. If I had announced that idea during my intro to Tech class, I think my instructor would have hit me. There has to be something about his gear setup that I don't understand, because to me there is such an obvious clip-off solution--the one I would have used without giving it a thought--that I cannot believe it was not used. As any cave instructor would predict, when Shaw aborted the dive and turned back to the ascent line, he found that his light head was thoroughly wrapped in the line leading to the body, and with his CO2 levels raised to an extreme, he was unable to free himself in time and passed out.

So how does someone as skilled as that make such a basic mistake and even include the mistake in planning, without any of the other highly skilled divers there pointing it out? Is a diver who makes such a basic mistake a beginning or an advanced diver? If that means he is not an advanced diver, then I would argue that there is no such thing.
 
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