What would you do: Molested at 100' by an OOA Diver

[a-marshal]

There strikes me as a serious BS component in the original quote. I'd love to see this calm OOA ascent from 100' by the person who carries no alternate air source whilst they are being bear hugged by a panicking diver. More likely I envisage trying to culture a sense of justification for repeatedly showing off by doing ascents from 100' for "practice".

I think I'm with you... what kind of hit would you take bouncing from 100 feet to 15 feet (or wherever) at even a slow CESA speed, dropping off the OOA diver then " get(ting) back to their own group" at 100 feet or so?

 

[danvolker]

I think I'm with you... what kind of hit would you take bouncing from 100 feet to 15 feet (or wherever) at even a slow CESA speed, dropping off the OOA diver then " get(ting) back to their own group" at 100 feet or so?

With air or nitrox, and a straight hand off, then straight back down as negative as you can be, I'd say your hyper-saturation will remain in solution, and you will not be bubbling--- I have had the equivalent occur to me from 275 to the surface, because of another diver's emergency, then back down to 100 at a descent / fall rate of about 150 to 200 feet per minute....not symptoms or any feeling out of the ordinary, no issues after the normal deco of ah hour at all the normal stops....but this was air....Trimix ( which we are NOT discussing), would not allow this --you would bubble like a shaken bottle of coke on trimix

 

[EastEndDiver]

I think I'm with you... what kind of hit would you take bouncing from 100 feet to 15 feet (or wherever) at even a slow CESA speed, dropping off the OOA diver then " get(ting) back to their own group" at 100 feet or so?

Let me try to answer that....................In "the old days" we used to dive using tables not a computer maybe the tables were more conservative than todays computers not sure.
We used to dive square profiles meaning that we always used the deepest depth reached as our depth, even if we rose shallower than that during any part of the dive or for most of the dive.So in reality we usually were at a shallower depth than we had planned for with the tables but using our deepest depth in our bottom time calculations.
We never were trained to do a safety stop at 15 feet just deco stops if the tables required them.As things progressed a safety stop was suggested.
Our ascent rate was 60 feet per minute or as slow as the smallest bubble you were following.

Sounds a lot like Darwin was waiting for us but in reality we were well trained and I guess we did things right with the equipment available at the time.

Northeast wreck diving was a much different thing back then not sure about other areas.The dive boats were careful who they let dive,if they thought you didn't have the skill or knowledge you didn't dive.It was a small group compared to the amount of divers today.

---------- Post added June 13th, 2013 at 04:27 PM ----------

I think I answered a question that wasn't asked.......disregard my last post

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Who are these people that are diving with no SPG or J-valve? What boat or shop allows it? What instructor or guide would get in the water with someone so unprepared? Heck, you don't even hear about people doing this nowadays over on the vintage forum.

I see this in Japan. I recently checked out the gear that Open Water students were using; no octo either.
They teach buddy breathing.

It felt like I traveled in a time machine when I first saw set ups like that. I was/am surprised that classes are still taught that way, with that equipment setup. I wonder where else in the world it's still done that way?

I'll take a picture the next time I see it.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[beanojones]

I think I'm with you... what kind of hit would you take bouncing from 100 feet to 15 feet (or wherever) at even a slow CESA speed, dropping off the OOA diver then " get(ting) back to their own group" at 100 feet or so?

Because you might from your info box be a cold water diver, it might come as a surprise to you that basically every first dive on a two tank boat dive in the tropics is a 100+ foot dive, regardless of the divers certification. What this means is that often enough divers who cannot handle their buoyancy are rocketing to the surface from some significant depths. "Pressed the wrong button", or "He knocked my mask off, so I hit the up button" "My ears hurt so I hit the up button" are not really that uncommon to hear.*

It would be nice if no one ever did bounces to safety stop depths and back down. The fact is they happen all the damn time to the surface and back down to the bottom.

The fact is that DCS hits are rare enough that it is a surprise when they happen, and they often happen on shallow slow ascent dives too.

*Not to mention the "Can you dive down and free the anchor?" or Can you dive down and grab that Camera/weight Belt/GoPro" Dive computer etc. The reason so many of us learn to free dive to significant depths is because we have to and we don't have time to change tanks or put on our gear, not because we necessarily want to do a bunch of rapid ascents after nitrogen loading.

 

[Frosty]

Back to the origonal post. In that situation I would rip the bleepers mask off and get some distance.
No Im not uncareing and yes I'd still be happy then to bring the diver to the surface. But I'm not going to die so they can live.
Or rephrase that I can't save them if I'm busy dying.

 

[agilis]

Back to the origonal post. In that situation I would rip the bleepers mask off and get some distance.
No Im not uncareing and yes I'd still be happy then to bring the diver to the surface. But I'm not going to die so they can live.
Or rephrase that I can't save them if I'm busy dying.

Once a completely panicked ooa diver with supercharged adrenalin fueled strength has his/her hands on you and your air supply, their certain target, ripping off their mask may do no good unless you take your thumb and do your best to remove an eye immediately thereafter. Sounds harsh, but for most of us the alternative may be drowning.

I'm sure there are highly skilled super capable people who can handle these situations. Sometimes. Not always, though. It only takes only one lungful of water to put you down. I once tried to pull an 11 year old from the Point Pleasant canal. Killer currents there. I was in an 18ft power boat moving from Bay Head to the Manasquan with a few friends, and I jumped in to help pull the kid out of the water. I was about 19 and very strong, a skilled free diver, but that kid damn near killed me by climbing on my head and holding on with the power of a circus strongman until someone older and wiser clocked him. Would you believe his parents were angry because he had a bruised cheekbone and a black eye?

 

[beanojones]

I see this in Japan. I recently checked out the gear that Open Water students were using; no octo either.

They teach buddy breathing.

It felt like I traveled in a time machine when I first saw set ups like that. I was/am surprised that classes are still taught that way, with that equipment setup. I wonder where else in the world it's still done that way?

I'll take a picture the next time I see it.

Cheers,
Mitch

Probably, you saw an intro dive with the SPGs on lollipops and no octo. That's pretty standard for intro dives: no octo, and the SPG where the instructor (but not the diver) can see it.

AFAIK, no Japanese agencies are teaching buddy breathing now (or for that matter were the instructors doing so even when it was required.) Certainly no Japanese instructors I know teach buddy breathing.

 

[agilis]

Probably, you saw an intro dive with the SPGs on lollipops and no octo. That's pretty standard for intro dives: no octo, and the SPG where the instructor (but not the diver) can see it.

AFAIK, no Japanese agencies are teaching buddy breathing now (or for that matter were the instructors doing so even when it was required.) Certainly no Japanese instructors I know teach buddy breathing.

This is COMPLETELY off topic, so I apologize. I was in Japan for the first time 18 months ago visiting my daughter-in-law's family. I was in Tokyo and a couple of other cities. The most remarkable thing I noticed was that there was no one talking on a cell phone while walking on the street. Not a single person. Not one. I'm used to the NY /NJ Metropolitan area where just about everyone is either blabbing or texting. I've often seen people nearly hit by traffic while doing so, but so far have not been lucky enought to seen one given involuntary flying lessons.

I asked about the absence of what I was used to in the US, and was told it would be considered crude, rude behavior. Maybe there is a God. A beautiful, marvelous civilized place.

 

[TSandM]

it might come as a surprise to you that basically every first dive on a two tank boat dive in the tropics is a 100+ foot dive, regardless of the divers certification.

Interesting. I did an entire trip in Indonesia without ever going deeper than 80. In the Red Sea, some of our morning dives were no deeper than 30 feet. I think this is a gross overstatement.

beano, I really don't care whether a regulator gives warning of someone running out of gas or not. My point is that the PRESSURE GAUGE gives warning, and in today's world, just about everybody has one. You don't run out of gas without the pressure gauge going into the red. There ARE a few very odd malfunctions that will suddenly shut your gas off (like a clogged dip tube) but they are rare. Running out of gas is almost always due to a failure to plan enough gas for the dive, AND a failure to monitor one's gauge. I stand by my position that time spent teaching divers to watch their gauges is much better than time spent teaching them to cope with the results when they don't.