Whats happening to diving certification? Where have the standards gone?

[sotgecho]

If instructors are selling their students short by taking shortcuts then they shouldn't be instructing; they are not helping anyone. Diving is an extreme sport with many unforeseen variables probably more so then any other sport being "marketed" today and by not giving a student quality instruction you are adding more variables to the equation.

If you feel the people who you are diving with aren't up to your standard then don't dive with them. Dive with like minded people and take that out of the equation.

 

[DevonDiver]

We don't teach school kids how to use an abacus either...although it might have some 'conceptual' value that doesn't exist with a calculator...

Most non-commercial mariners can't use a sextant. Most motorists can't use a road map. Most kids can't read a sun dial...

If a diver is never going to use tables, there's little value in educating them to use them. If a diver sees some intrinsic value in gaining a greater understanding about dive/deco theory, there are far better ways to develop that education than spending hours calculating dives on long-winded tables.

Spend your cash on a copy of Mark Powell's 'Deco for Divers', rather than wasting it on a set of plastic tables that, for 99% of divers, will probably never see the light of day once their OW course is finished.

 

[Togalive]

There are a lot of ways to display information. PADI has the eRDP that is a digital representation of their tables. I think that is what your new diver is referring to and not an actual dive computer. Great for accuracy and old people like me who have a tough time reading small text. There is a lot to be said for people making mistakes in class by misreading a table.

In addition, I see another problem. You end up having to teach the tables when they take the NITROX class.

I am a huge fan of the eRDP, I think it is a great tool (when used with tables) that does a great job of taking out the error and acting as a "proofreader" for students to better understand how tables work. Unfortunately, after asking the student some more questions I have learned that while the eRDP was "mentioned" in the "computer booklet" they had to read, it was never used in a practical sense, nor explained fully or used at all on any questions in the exam (neither were tables as I mentioned before).

I could not agree with you more in that many students have to learn tables when taking an EANx course, but I wonder if its really appropriate for that to be the first time for a student to have really used them when your dealing with something as potentially dangerous as CNS and oxygen toxicity?

I really appreciate all of the quality responses!

 

[Togalive]

Togalive, try this on: link and link.

Great topics and info! I really appreciate the time you took to define the levels of experience and phrase your definition of what a "Master Diver" should be. I think I also have a good sense of what you would define as the skill level of divers being produced by some instructors today.

If instructors are selling their students short by taking shortcuts then they shouldn't be instructing; they are not helping anyone. Diving is an extreme sport with many unforeseen variables probably more so then any other sport being "marketed" today and by not giving a student quality instruction you are adding more variables to the equation.

If you feel the people who you are diving with aren't up to your standard then don't dive with them. Dive with like minded people and take that out of the equation.

I couldnt agree with you more. I try my best to do so, as I am sure everyone does. One concerning point, completely in line with your comment of poor instruction "not helping anyone" is when you get two freshly certified OW students who may have received a poor degree of instruction, but relatively see each other as both being up to the standards to which they were taught. I could easily see these divers going out and landing in a heap of trouble like so many do.

I agree with a point mentioned by a previous poster, that perhaps the lower fatality rates we've been experiencing are the product of better gear, not higher training standards.

 

[driftwood]

Don't worry, I am sure that PADI is working on a NITROX version of the eRDP.

I am a big fan of using multiple methods for presenting data. Not everyone learns the same way.

 

[SDAnderson]

Just a few reasons why computers are better than tables:

• They are easier to use. No more error-prone, flippity-floppity, back and forthy like the tables. At the most, a few button pushes is all it takes, most of the time all you have to do to get them started is get wet.
• They are more reliable. GIGO applies to tables as much as computers and tables rotting in a dive bag constitute a system failure every bit as much as a flooded battery compartment.
• They are more precise. Both during planning and dive phases, computers can handle more data and calculations than the tables. By far.
• They are more efficient. Instead of requiring divers to carry multiple sets of tables, a depth gauge, a timing device and a log, (and backups for each) everything is rolled up into one item.
• They are easier to teach. People, especially younger people, grok computers. NOBODY groks the tables without effort.
• People actually use them. Anything that results in fewer trust me/follow me dives is a good thing.
• They are electronic nannies. Even if you forget or screw up, as long as you have one they have your back.

There is nothing wrong with learning and understanding the tables but it's important to remember that the tables are NOT an end in and of themselves. They are a tool, nothing more, and computers are better tools. Students don't need a table to wrap their noodles around the relationship between time/depth/nitrogen loading. Or, better stated, if they do, diving is probably more of an intellectual challenge than they are able to handle and they should consider taking up golf, instead.

Progress always discomfits the established.

 

[imwright1985]

Is it instructors selling their students short or getting a thinned down assortment of materials to use. I think they should teach tables, eRDP and do walk throughs tables with them multiple times. When I got certified most OW packets only had the eRDP. Our instructor took the regular dive tables and had a couple sets in the room that we had to rotate through eRDP and regular tables on. I liked that since if the comp ever fails its just dust off the tables and continue diving..

 

[Frosty]

Actually folks ya know I'm a recent convert to the whole AI computer world. I have a sherwood wisdom 2 and utterly love its ease and simplicity. I love it in the same way as I love my basic calculator at work for doing exchange rate calculations and calculating the dollar value of sales tax etc. BUT by the same account I still have paper and pencil if I need to here at work and I still carry my manual pressure gauge/depth gauge pencil/paper and tables in my dive bag.
I'd hate for my dive trip to be ruined because a fancy bit of electronics failed so I'm prepared for the worst.

 

[sotgecho]

You know what scares me; instructors telling or having the students dive when they are clearly not ready.

I saw this in the Bahamas when I was there two weeks ago. I was on an afternoon dive with a newly "certified" diver and what I mean by newly certified he spent a few hours in a pool on a resort course. This kid was clearly not ready; you could tell he was nervous but went diving anyway because he paid his fees and did some stuff in a pool. The instructor at his side should of seen that and not taken him out to the wall and then to the wreck in 70 fsw beyond OW limits.

Remember follow the money; it is usually the answer.

 

[Togalive]

I do not disagree with you on any of your points regarding the benefits of computers, if I did, I myself would not dive with a computer as I do. However, I also always carry a table on me. I believe there is one significant point that you have overlooked as so many seem to be, and that is that tables cant run out of batteries. Tables dont need a diveshop to replace the battery. Tables dont need special tools to open them if you need to replace batteries.

I am not suggesting that all divers simply go back to "the dark ages" of diving and forgo computers. However, I think it is incredibly irresponsible of instructors to not teach their use. What would you expect your student to do if they found themselves with a dead computer in the middle of a dive, or perhaps in a tropical locale or live aboard with limited resources to replace their battery. Where would those students turn then? I am confident in saying that few, if any, could run through the actual calculations to figure out their bottom times and tissue loading without a table, so should they just expect another diver to have a spare computer?

"Progress" is not progress at all if it means tomorrows divers are more ill-equipped to deal with common situations than ever.