What's not acceptable for OW training?

[fisherdvm]

We live in a "blame" society. I guess I just see that eventually, some certified divers somewhere will blame the instructor for not having taught him/her to clear a mask, use a standard BC, or how to use a weight belt. And so he/she got in trouble when borrowed one or used one somewhere. There are methods where weight belts should be ditched and donned, and how're you going to learn this if you were not taught to use one?

In the same way, as one progress to instructor status, wouldn't you want to be confident in standard gear configuration anyhow?

I guess I would rather be trained to drive a manual transmission, than an automatic. Cause it is alot easier to go from one to the other, than vice versa.

But we are getting a good mix of response to these issues. So that's why the discussion was started. I guess if it were up to me, dry snorkel and snorkels with purge valves should also be banned.

Again, I started my post with "In my opinion". Not trying to boss no one around here. How the heck you can get some of those integrated weight pocket back is beyond me under water. Some of them are so hard to reinsert even on DRY land.

 

[don Francisco]

I agree about teaching using basic equipment. Certainly a student with weight integrated BC should learn proper use of a weight belt (Instruct without the pockets). However, a student also needs to be familiar with his own equipment & so a thorough instructor will teach with BOTH standard and the students equipment. Obviously, a new diver will want to dive with his equipment and be task loaded enough without dealing with having to learn about that too on his fisrt post OW dives.

One important consideration in student equipment selection is that the definition of standard will evolve with time as new feature become commonplace, so the teaching has to evolve also.

A case in point is computers. Since a much larger majority are buying computers early in their dive careers, OW courses should evolve to take this into consideration. Training tables only does a newbie no good if he's totally unaware of what to do if his computer alarms out, going DECO, DECO, DECO at 70 feet. I was once buddied up with a newbie whose Suunto alarmed and said
"ascend" at about 60 feet. so he did, directly to the surface about as fast as his fins would take him. He didn't stop at the ceiling, he didn't do a safety stop, he didn't pass go & collect $200.
(good things computers are slightly conservative)

For the record, I'm not recommending that instructors switch from teaching dive tables & dive planning with tables. I'm suggesting that with changing times it's more important than ever to teach basics PLUS those areas the individual student will need early on after leaving your supervision. dF

 

[scubadale]

I think that instead of banning those items it should be mandatory to teach those items as well. The ow student should be exposed to as many gear configurations as possible so they are able to make wise decisions on what works best for them and the type of diving they will be doing.

My students with purge valves are taught to clear non-purge masks (by the way I have had the same purge mask for 8 years. I still teach confined water in it but use the DataMask for ow). I have students learn both weight belt and integrated BC for the weight skills. They are taught primary donation, alternate donation, octo/inflator integrated sharing, as well as buddy breathing.

As for cars when I was in Brazil I was told I could not drive a stick as all we drove in the US were automatics. Not related to discussion but interesting anyway.

What I think should be banned is any course that can be completed in one weekend which does not allow for teaching the students as many gear configs as possible.

With that I am off to the pool with my purge mask, my weight integrated bc and my weight belt. Students all have same gear config as listed for myself.

 

[Web Monkey]

In my opinion, a student completing OW training should NOT have the following gears:

1. Purge valve mask.
2. Weight integrated BC (at least until you've completed the donning/removal exercise; at least not using that feature until you've completed the drills).
3. Up/down push button BC.
4. One way inflator hose that comes with the up/down push button BC.

If they bought a purge mask or WI BC, they should be trained in it.

There's little point in training someone to be proficient in equipment that you prefer if it isn't what they'll be using.

Terry

 

[ryanpublic]

You know the ones that get me are the ones who spit in their wet suits and pee in their mask.

 

[CLEAR BLUE]

I did my OW class with a purge mask and an integrated weight BC. I did clear my mask the traditional way during the class and sometimes I do underwater (if there is a good bit of water in my mask). As far as ditching and replacing my weights....if I could do it with the integrated system ...no problem with the weight belt. The integrated system is harder.

 

[Hank49]

Weight integrated is refering to bc's with ditchable weight pockets in them. Should be pretty obvious to anyone who's been around diving or this site very long. Has nothing to do with a heavy backplate.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've lost a lot of sleep wondering how I would answer someone asking me if my ss bp wing is weight integrated. It's an obvious, "hell no"...?

 

[String]

I agree with purge mask.
Even though im violently against weight integrated jackets id probably allow it but make them do the skill with a belt once or twice as well.
Same for different type BCs - let them wear their own but demo to me they can use conventional as well.

I see it as my duty when training to train them to use the most common format of equipment they'll come across in case they ever rent or change.

A purge/self drain snorkel i'd ban - if people insist we must teach snorkel skills i want them to demonstrate they can properly clear a tube without any aids.

 

[InkDiver]

Weight integrated is refering to bc's with ditchable weight pockets in them. Should be pretty obvious to anyone who's been around diving or this site very long. Has nothing to do with a heavy backplate.

I'm sure that Johnny B knew was being referred to. His point still stands as a valid one. With my SS BP, there is no weight to drop at all. I wear no weight on a weight belt or in pockets. Based on the OP's line of thought, I should not train in that either, as I can't ditch a weight belt.

"Should be pretty obvious to anyone who's been around diving or this site very long."

 

[1_T_Submariner]

When I took open water the instructor had me use different gear on each pool session and OW dive. He had the class use regular masks, purge mask, Weight belts and Non-integrated BC, Weight inegrated BCs, Solid blade fins, Force fins and the blasfomous Split Fins. I think the experience of different gear helps decide which things you might want to purchase.

I really don't think that the equipment should be banned maybe the choices discussed.