When does it make sense to learn sidemount?

[drbill]

I can only speak for myself. I do not do caves or wreck penetrations. Sidemount for me is a way to carry sufficient gas and redundancy to undertake longer deep dives without having to carry doubles on my aging back. After all, I'm an old geezer!

 

[tphelps]

So here is my question for both of you: Will my training on the stealth 2 with Patrick cross over to all other SM harnesses? I assume I will need a day or two to learn a new harness but the skills would be the same, right? If so, I might wait on buying the Stealth 2.0 to figure out where I wil actually be diving - right now I live in NY, but want to study in FL so then would be diving there obviously. If I end up going to FL maybe it would make sense to try out Edd´s SMS100 to compare to the stealth and maybe I can try some other harnesses. Or even if I bought the stealth and ended up needing something else, then I could just have different set ups for different places like dive-aholic. What do you guys think?

Hey buddy!
It makes sense that you want to get the rig that your instructor supports. I know a little about the Stealth, the technology is pretty good but its a bit pricey. Just under what the Razor2, which is a phenomenal rig. If you are only going to be doing sidemount with 2 tanks (like if you do not see yourself doing Tec SM for a while), then I would advise AGAINST the SMS100. I currently have the SMS100 because I got it on clearance for dirt cheap. But I only use it when I am doing a Tec SM dive (4 tanks). Back when I was in the Caribbean, I used a Dive Rite that was very similar in terms of shape and lift capacity. Bottom line, it is NOT all that stream lined because it is huge rig. I used it last month with I dove cold water with my steel 100s and it is good for that. If you can see yourself using it in Florida, I would go with something smaller. Stealth is a good option, Dive Rite's Nomad is pretty good too. I have been doing A LOT of homework and my favorite rig on the market right now is the UTD Z-harness. UTD Online Store - +1 855 DIVEUTD (348-3883) or +1 760 585-9676 - [email]sales@utdequipment.com[/email]
Seriously, when I am bored I go on Youtube and just watch sidemount videos or harness reviews...im that obsessed. I just ordered mine, should be arriving soon! Anyways theres my 2 cents, hmu if you have any more questions!

---------- Post added May 16th, 2013 at 10:26 PM ----------

To answer your other question, yeah you will need to play around in the pool or confined when you first dive in a new configuration. It usually takes me about 2 dives to dial in where I want my bungees and bands when I dry a new system.
Here is a video I did when I was doing some wreck dives in California on sidemount. Watch the first 3:00s then you can skip to 6:30 where I show myself again in the SMS100. Feel free to laugh at my trim, that footage is from my 1st dive of the day and oh man my tanks were high! I adjusted them for the 2nd dive and it felt so much better.
[video=youtube;YrmURKCNdiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrmURKCNdiI[/video]

 

[adimi24]

Hey Tyler, the stealth actually is only $650 while the Razor 2 is $800. Patrick will also give me the Stealth 2.0 for 10% off which brings it down to $585 (almost same as your UTD ) which I think is a reasonable price ( especially compared to stuff like my friend just bought a $700 Scubapro jacket BC, loser! )

Good to know about the SMS100. I don´t know when or if I will get into tec and the stealth is supposed to be one of the most streamlined, right? So if I like it then it´s probably worth getting it.

 

[gearhound]

Tphelps is correct about the SMS 100 sucking for diving Al80s. It's just too much. The UTD Z trim and Hollis SMS 50 (which is just a copy) both put the air in the wrong place IMO. The air always congregates to the shoulder blade area. When you're in the prone position, your shoulder blades are higher than your waist. In the water, air likes to go up to the highest point, this throwing your trim off. You then have to compensate for that by adding additional weight up high in the shoulder area.
The Edd mods are to set the SMS 100 up like the Armadillo. Why not save money and buy the Armadillo?

 

[JamesK]

Tphelps is correct about the SMS 100 sucking for diving Al80s. It's just too much. The UTD Z trim and Hollis SMS 50 (which is just a copy) both put the air in the wrong place IMO. The air always congregates to the shoulder blade area. When you're in the prone position, your shoulder blades are higher than your waist. In the water, air likes to go up to the highest point, this throwing your trim off. You then have to compensate for that by adding additional weight up high in the shoulder area.
The Edd mods are to set the SMS 100 up like the Armadillo. Why not save money and buy the Armadillo?

With one simple modification the UTD works great and puts you in perfect trim. Old school bungees under the wing and attached to the sewn in loops with cave line or inner tube. I have no issues with trim and have no boulder weights at all.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Dive-aholic, that´s what I was worried about, I feel like I am rushing into this ( I am starting tomorrow morning.. ) without knowing much about the options. I´ve pretty much only heard good things about the stealth 2, though.

So here is my question for both of you: Will my training on the stealth 2 with Patrick cross over to all other SM harnesses? I assume I will need a day or two to learn a new harness but the skills would be the same, right?

I can't really answer that as I don't know how Patrick conducts training. While from what I've read I'm sure he's a great instructor, if he keeps his training focused on the Stealth then you may be missing out on things. In my class I take all 6 of my different rigs out and explain the differences and similarities and different modifications that can be done to each. While the in water skills are essentially the same - gas management, regulator switches, out of air, tank movement, etc. Getting tanks and you trimmed out in different rigs is not the same and may not cross over to different rigs.

Have fun in your class!

 

[adimi24]

Class is going pretty well. Only problem is my damn feet! I have size 12 boots so they are really buoyant - i started with my Cressi frog plus which are way to buoyant. Then tried Hogs - too heavy. Jet Fins don´t fit. Dive Rite exps are too light but best so far ( bus when my tanks get low, plus the light fins then my feet go up ). Both too heavy and too light mess up my trim, and I just go up when backfinning with light fins and frog kicks don´t work well with the heavy ones. We´ve tried weight on the butt with light fins and weight at the top with heavy fins but doesn´t really help. Any ideas?


Sounds like it shouldn´t be a problem, then, dive-aholic, thanks.

What course materials are supposed to be part of the IANTD basic nitrox course? Protec gave it to me for "free" as part of my one on one sidemount course. I am unsure of how much this course usually costs and what is included. I asked Protec if all course materials would be provided and they said yes, and now they are saying the manual is $44 if I want it ( not sure if I should pursue this ). I assume I need the book, or can I download it online or buy it used ( don´t care if its filled in )? The book I have is also really old, not sure if there is a newer edition and if it would be any different? Also, are separate waterproof tables for EAN 32 and 36 supposed to be provided with the course, or manual (there are paper tables in the back of the manual ), or bought separately?

Not sure if this is any different, buy mine has a differnt cover of a person in one of those retro wetsuits http://www.amazon.com/IANTD-Nitrox-Diver-Student-Manual/dp/B004NG3Q30/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1368920349&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=iantd+nitrox+tables




Is there any reason I shouldn´t buy the Stealth 2.0 tomorrow ( like trying other rigs )? If I want to buy one then shouldn´t I dive with a new one that I´ll buy tomorrow and have Patrick set it up well so I don´t have to figure it out all on my own later?

 

[gearhound]

Light fins, move the wing higher and keep the weights low?

 

[rongoodman]

I wouldn't bother with the IANTD Nitrox manual. If you want something to read, pick up a copy of the TDI Advanced Nitrox text when you get home. Instead of paying for paper tables, spend the money on a copy of VPlanner or MultiDeco for your platform of choice. Ultimately, posture is going to play a role with your trim, and that will take time. I'd try a pair of Slipstreams too.

(I spent some time in the pool today practicing breathing off a bare tank valve in anticipation of underwater regulator swaps--not easy with a sticky valve.)

 

[adimi24]

I wouldn't bother with the IANTD Nitrox manual. If you want something to read, pick up a copy of the TDI Advanced Nitrox text when you get home. Instead of paying for paper tables, spend the money on a copy of VPlanner or MultiDeco for your platform of choice. Ultimately, posture is going to play a role with your trim, and that will take time. I'd try a pair of Slipstreams too.

(I spent some time in the pool today practicing breathing off a bare tank valve in anticipation of underwater regulator swaps--not easy with a sticky valve.)

Will that book cover everything in the IANTD basic nitrox manual i have now? For example, I haven´t even learned to use deco tables and am still evieing EAD, MOD, etc from this manual ( $38 on amazon, so i save $6 too!).

What is vplanner and multideco, computer softwares? Would this and how would it replace tables ( I thought I would be getting plastic tables like my padi air one, to take down as a backup for computer, and I don´t even have a computer yet so this is all i have)?

That sounds fun? Porbably a bit more difficult then me feathering my failed reg!