Which has a higher rate of failure a SPG or a transmitter?

[DaleC]

I'm not to interested in a point by point rebuttal but the "why even go diving" statement doesn't jibe with the discussion. There is just a difference between what is needed for a dive and what one can bring along. One does not need bottom time remaining displays, sac calculators or cool downloadable dive profile graphics. That a want - not a need. As I said, if one does not mind the 10:1 cost difference, enjoys looking at all that sort of stuff and doesn't mind calling dives then go for it. I have friends that like to download their dives, look at their profiles on their smart phones etc... but I don't. I still dive with them though. I agree it's a personal thing and to each their own.

As for safety. I don't agree it makes the average recreational diver safer. What I hear is that one is becoming completely dependent on the computer to do all the calculation/environmental awareness work instead of being conscious of these things as they occur during the dive. And, I think many new divers who opt for an AI don't even understand how half those values are derived at either.
Rock bottom?
SAC?
BT remaining at a given depth?
Those are concepts in which the background theory is just as valuable as the number spat out during the dive.

As far as forgetting to check instruments or progression during the dive: Equipment solution to a skills deficit (which is a term I don't really like using but it fits). If one forgets to check the SPG one should work one that skill/awareness. Not buy a $1000 dollar computer to compensate. I liken this to the new car feature that self parallel parks for the driver. Does it make that driver safer? It's an interesting question because, that driver may in fact, have fewer accidents while at the same time exhibiting an atrophied skill level.
Having the base skill set makes the diver safer (then an AI does or doesn't matter). Not having the base skill set makes the diver dependent.

 

[japan-diver]

Been working full time in the industry for awhile. If we are talking about failures during dives- AI comp are way ahead of pressure gauges. We have customers on a regular basis turning dives early because their AI lost sync and they did not know how much air they have left so they ended the dive. We see problems with synching all the time- many prove to be battery issues. I would say an average of about once a week we see problems with AI computers. With SPG's I can not remember the last time one failed during a dive, minor air spool leaks but that is not a dive ender and can be fixed in minutes once back on the boat before the next dive.
Although not scientific my experience says that AI computers have quite a few more failures than SPG. I still like my brass and glass SPG.

 

[redacted]

I'm not to interested in a point by point rebuttal but the "why even go diving" statement doesn't jibe with the discussion. There is just a difference between what is needed for a dive and what one can bring along. One does not need bottom time remaining displays, sac calculators or cool downloadable dive profile graphics. That a want - not a need. As I said, if one does not mind the 10:1 cost difference, enjoys looking at all that sort of stuff and doesn't mind calling dives then go for it.

Admittedly, I am not a big fan of excess information. In fact, I don't want it. I want to know my depth, time, nitrogen and oxygen loading status and my tank pressure. I check depth and time fairly often. Every 5 minutes or so if I am not ascending or descending and almost constantly when I am navigating by depth or making planned depth changes. I generally check gas a couple times in the first few minutes of a dive and then may go 10 minutes or more between gas supply checks mostly to confirm my mental tracking of my gas usage. I do check gas more frequently when portions of the dive plan are predicated on gas supply remaining. I really don't want a bunch of other information especially when it clutters the display. I have no use for ascent rate indicators but have little choice and they, at least, don't get in the way.

As I see it then, the difference between my relatively inexpensive computer and SPG and the more expensive wireless job is at least a 3-day live-a-board trip to the Flower Gardens. And, If you need one to dive then you need a spare on hand so that is 2 trips (or one trip to Cozumel). This was a very easy value decision for me.

 

[Hatul]

Equipment vs skills deficit? I don't think it's as simple as that. Forgetting to do something or being distracted is more like being human. Most car accidents are caused by driver error, maybe not yours but someone else's, yet we still build safety into cars: seat belts, injury protection, anti-lock brakes. Miscalculations are also part of being human.

 

[jaycanwk]

As others have said, we should probably compare apples to apples rather than apples to pears. Of the spg's that fail what is the failure rate of the brass&galss vs the cheaper plastic ones? I have both and niether has failed yet, but I also don't have as many dives as others to compare.

 

[beaverdivers]

Besides, there is an indicator for low battery of the transmitter I am using. I'd be surprised if this was a feature unique to Suunto's hoseless AI computers but I don't have first hand experience with other brands.

Scubapro Galileo Sols & Lunas have a low battery indicator for the transmitters that appears on the wrist unit. Also, every time you turn on the unit it shows the battery level of the wrist unit.

 

[Peter_C]

Also my Galileo Sol calculates the remaining time I have before I have to make a safe ascent without running out of air, making the miscalculation less likely. It also makes the calculation of rock-bottom easier--the minimum pressure to allow you and your buddy to make a safe ascent sharing air.

Can you tell me how your computer knows what tank size you are using? For instance I will often switch from double HP100's to a single HP130 and my min gas changes. If I travel to the tropics and am using an AL80 it again changes. Do you go into the software and change the tank size every time you change tank configuration? Have you hand calculated it out to better understand what the computer is telling you?

On deep dives it's easy for the diver to miscalculate and is the cause of many accidents.

This is where pre-dive planning is important and it should all be discussed and laid out before ever entering the water. Max depth should be confirmed, min gas limits set for dive buddies, along with dive time for NDL's. Most of us were taught pre-dive planning, although it seems the crash courses today are getting away from such types of planning and instead counting on a DM to keep them alive. Around here the DM is on the boat, not in the water.

 

[endurodog]

I'm not to interested in a point by point rebuttal but the "why even go diving" statement doesn't jibe with the discussion. There is just a difference between what is needed for a dive and what one can bring along. One does not need bottom time remaining displays, sac calculators or cool downloadable dive profile .

Your missing the point. Talking about what one needs in a discussion of a hobby is silly. None of us need to dive, but it was a silly statement too. Do you have gear you don't need? Gear that is beyond the basic gear, my bet would be yes. You don't need any more than a standard SPG, depth gauge, and compass and go dive. So talking about what someone "needs" is a ridiculous premise to start with.

So it comes down to what makes the dive more enjoyable for each diver. If you don't want that extra stuff, then so be it, if someone else does, so be it. I don't dive with a SPG attached as a back up, I use a wireless AI wrist computer. If you want to have that extra piece of equipment, more power to you but to say it's a need thing is different also. Then to say that the benifits of those things don't offer anyone additional safety is along those same lines

It's typical of many SB discussion where someone comes in and says someone else is lacking, or as you state, "Skills deficit" because they choose to use different equipment. I don't buy it and I think that is a little snobbish of an arguement.

For reference I learned to dive in 1983, only analog gauges available and the Navy Dive Tables, no rec tables. I feel totally comfortable diving that way and had no issues. Now I choose to dive with the new stuff, not because I need to because of some lack of training but because I enjoy it that way.

 

[tadawson]

So, is there still a transmitter?

No - the computer is attached to the hose and reads pressure directly, just like a typical console, and provided the exact same feature set of the wireless stuff, save for being physically attached.

- Tim

 

[redacted]

Equipment vs skills deficit? I don't think it's as simple as that. Forgetting to do something or being distracted is more like being human. Most car accidents are caused by driver error, maybe not yours but someone else's, yet we still build safety into cars: seat belts, injury protection, anti-lock brakes. Miscalculations are also part of being human.

You think comparison to driving an auto is appropriate? In a car you are traveling at 50 to 100 feet per second. Approaching cars are closing at 100 to 200 fps. Diving is more like walking through your home in terms of reaction speeds. Do you walk into doorways often? Or do you use expensive technology to avoid such accidents?

I guess some folks may need the bells and whistles (and alarms) and you may be one.

I do dive a Scubapro Mk7 (honker) just for kicks at times. The honking has never been a surprise for me.

BTW, I have never incurred unplanned deco. I have never run out of gas. When I dive, I pay attention to those things that matter.