Solved: Who am I talking to?

[lowviz]

@The Chairman

Dear sir,
Would you consider making dive professionals (DM and above) immediately distinct from 'just divers' on this fine social board? I gain a lot of insight by being able to determine the 'flavor' of the poster and have recently been greatly surprised to learn of their professional status. I find this to be most unsettling.

It matters. You (posters) are or aren't posting as a professional. The unwashed massed don't always know this. Your SB persona does not reflect this as it should. No, we aren't all the same. Professionalism comes with obligations, titles, and transparency.

Show yourselves...

 

[Kharon]

You posted :

"Kharon said Well then, that really speaks to my perception of dive professionals. No standards, no ethics."

and replied

^Butthurt

That was NOT MY post. You took it out of context. Here is what I actually posted:

"Agressive is one thing. A trumpistic put down is quite another and deserves rebuttal. Here's what he said after a number of honest replys:

Well then, that really speaks to my perception of dive professionals. No standards, no ethics."

And what the heck is ^Butthurt anyway?

 

[Steve_C]

One major factor in discouraging new divers from starting or continuing is cost. Top of the line state of the art toys can be a major hit for most. I can afford them but do not bother. I only dive air or nitrox. I do not do deliberate deco but want a computer that can safely get me home if I do get past NDL. I often dive in as solo configuration, and two dive computers ups the total evermore.

 

[The Chairman]

No, I never suggested any of those things. I can't for the life of me imagine why you think I did.

That was the point Bob, and I noted this right there. You're the one exaggerating what I said, but you can't see that. Here let me quote what I posted and embolden the salient part. Perhaps you'll read it this time.

See? These semi-rhetorical questions that try to cast the other party in an unflattering light are pretty bogus. Of course, you never suggested any of those things, just like I wouldn't suggest that a diver use a piece of equipment that they don't understand. It's misleading and relies on fear mongering.

This is a board with special rules. If you can't discuss things without resorting to that tactic,

Please listen to your own advice, Bob.

The "you're gonna die" inference is utter BS

Is it? Didn't you just post this?

and an algorithm that can easily get them in trouble if they misprogram it?

"easily get them in trouble?" How? What kind of trouble? What are the possible outcomes? Without any examples of divers actually getting in trouble by using the Perdix, you're raising the specter that they could 'easily' be injured and possibly die. FWIW, misprogramming any PDC can "easily get them in trouble". Why is the Perdix any different in this regard?

Pete ... please, just stop responding to my posts. You seem to have a hard time having a conversation without making it personal.

Bob. Bob. Bob. You responded to me first. It's a two-way street. You made it personal when you suggested that I said something I didn't. Of course, you won't see your own mistakes... you just want to blame me all the time. I'm not the one getting butthurt with a simple dialog. I haven't called you a name. I haven't discussed your lineage in any form. I've simply disagreed with you and all of a sudden you claim that I'm making things "personal".

Disagreeing with someone isn't making things "personal". That's all in your mind and not my intent. You resort to this argument almost everytime we disagree on something. You tell me not to respond to you anymore but then you respond to me. It's tiresome and misrepresents me and my motives. You're taking constructive dialog in a way it was never intended to be taken. I'm not making it personal as much as you're simply taking it that way. Disagreeing with someone isn't making it personal. I'm not your enemy and respect you for the most part. We actually agree more than we disagree. Please learn to accept disagreements without attaching nefarious intent to them. Please! It would be a very boring place if we had to agree with each other all the time. Also, don't blame me for responding to you after you respond to me. That's just not fair.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'd add the word some, many, or most to the beggining of the sentence. In my area I know (some better than others) nearly every instructer. Most are good to great. One is an arrogant prick. And one is downright dangerous.

Yeah, good point.
I’d break it up into thirds.
One third are nice people but they stammer and stutter, between the “ah’s” “um’s” and distracting awkwardness of them trying to teach something.
The second third are good speakers, convey the info in a comprehensive manner, and are knowledgeable and likable.
And the last third are arrogant pricks, which are completely useless.

 

[northernone]

I'd add the word some, many, or most to the beggining of the sentence. In my area I know (some better than others) nearly every instructer. Most are good to great. One is an arrogant prick. And one is downright dangerous.

Unfortunately those characteristics don't come with physical warning signs.

One major factor in discouraging new divers from starting or continuing is cost. Top of the line state of the art toys can be a major hit for most. I can afford them but do not bother. I only dive air or nitrox. I do not do deliberate deco but want a computer that can safely get me home if I do get past NDL. I often dive in as solo configuration, and two dive computers ups the total evermore.

I agree. In my case starting out it was the cost of AIR FILLS that limited my scuba diving and had me on homemade surface supplied air/diving bells and breath hold diving. We had scuba equipment, but as a child no excess money for a "rich man's" sport. I am still mindful of those days whenever someone from a different financial situation makes equipment recommendations to new divers.

Those things might be as useful "signs" as the designation professional.

As I'm thinking about this thread, it seems we're best to take people at the content of their posts, and less to their credentials. We're all divers. If we think something, let's be able to explain why, not just appeal to authority.

If I say "X is a stupid idea, I'm an instructor and I know" instead of "What about X interests you? Here's a reference to X study. Here's what I learned after trying X and Y 500 times each personally. Here's what X and Y training agency's say about X. Here's my thinking about X." I think my contribution to the forum would be less valuable.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

@lowviz

Great. Now, you've got mom and dad fighting.

 

[The Chairman]

If I say "X is a stupid idea, I'm an instructor and I know"

People who appeal to their own authority get shot down pretty quick around here. They often cite the site as being toxic and leave in a huff.

Feedback is a bonus. It's not an attack. It's not a referendum on your character. If you're going to improve, you have to not only listen (read) feedback, but you're going to have to ponder it and perhaps let it change how you do things. Disagreements during these kinds of discussions are to be cherished. I want to see other's perspectives perhaps to learn how to do something differently or to recognize yet another problem I want to avoid.

 

[Bubblesong]

@lowviz

Great. Now, you've got mom and dad fighting.

OMG, i was just about to post the same thing! Love them both, but don’t want to step between two swinging fists or I will be the one sporting two blacks eyes!

 

[kelemvor]

So what is a dive industry professional?
E.g.: Does the computer wizz who never dives but maintains a shop's web presence count? Obviously not in the sense of the OP... But if someone was represented as a dive industry professional, what all might that include?

In my mind it's simple. Anyone who stands to benefit from the sale of dive related anything. That anything could be training, equipment, boat rides, or other things. That would include the computer whiz who maintains the shop's web presence. Why? Because if I ask "what's a good brand of dive computer" and that guy answers, he's likely to tell me about whatever computer that his shop sells. Actually I'd say it's especially true in his case because his knowledge is exclusively based off of this situation since he's not even a diver.


I think when we talk about "advice" on scuba board there are mostly just two categories. Okay, there's probably more than two but I'd argue that it's usually one of the two.
1. Equipment advice e.g. "I'm a new diver with 3 dives, what brand regulator should I buy"
2. Skills/training advice "I'm a new diver with 3 dives and I can't get over being freaked out when underwater."

If I'm doing the asking then when it comes to equipment advice I would prefer answers from people who are not professionals. However if it is skills advice then I'd prefer to hear from a professional.

 

[The Chairman]

it's usually one of the two.

Destinations are a third.