OP
Giving this a bump. It's that time of year again in many areas. New divers, old divers dusting off skills, and divers scheduling trips. It is also the time divers start dying. Let's try to minimize that.
Who is responsible for what?
- Thread starter Jim Lapenta
- Start date
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Gudu
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Thank you for your post.
You are a credit to the Industry and the entire dive Comunity.
You are a credit to the Industry and the entire dive Comunity.
Platy Von Kippington
Registered
As others have said, thank you for your insight, it certainly does not fall upon deaf ears. I will be starting my divemaster training in a few months, and will be moving onto IDC after that, and I can only hope that there are more instructors like yourself who take a realistic approach and a personal interest in seeing that every diver that goes in the water will be confident, self sufficient, and safe. If there was any kind of instructor I would like to model, that would be it.
It has been a growing concern of mine, since signing up for an IDC/DM "package" at the LDS, that my professional training will be focused on completing skills and little more. Ever since my OW certification, "advanced", specialty, and rescue training, I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm being shown all kinds of "skills", but nobody is actually teaching me how to dive. Every time I bring a question up about setting my trim right, how to execute maneuvers, or even how to kick properly, I'm told "it comes with experience, just dive more". I can agree with that to a certain extent, and my skills have increased exponentially through little more than sheer ambition to improve, but then I read up about other approaches such as DIR diving and how those classes are conducted. I worry that divemaster and IDC training wall fall far short of this - I'll be shown what to teach, but never shown how to be a teacher. I worry that when I reach the professional ranks, I'll be pushed into becoming little more than a ticket stamping piece of meat that makes people flood their mask in a pool before shuttling them off to the sales floor. What does that say when it comes time for me to represent not only the LDS, but the diving community in general?
It has been a growing concern of mine, since signing up for an IDC/DM "package" at the LDS, that my professional training will be focused on completing skills and little more. Ever since my OW certification, "advanced", specialty, and rescue training, I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm being shown all kinds of "skills", but nobody is actually teaching me how to dive. Every time I bring a question up about setting my trim right, how to execute maneuvers, or even how to kick properly, I'm told "it comes with experience, just dive more". I can agree with that to a certain extent, and my skills have increased exponentially through little more than sheer ambition to improve, but then I read up about other approaches such as DIR diving and how those classes are conducted. I worry that divemaster and IDC training wall fall far short of this - I'll be shown what to teach, but never shown how to be a teacher. I worry that when I reach the professional ranks, I'll be pushed into becoming little more than a ticket stamping piece of meat that makes people flood their mask in a pool before shuttling them off to the sales floor. What does that say when it comes time for me to represent not only the LDS, but the diving community in general?
OP
Unfortunately it may turn out to be that way. I hope you have researched the IDC you will be doing and interviewed those who will be offering it. If they do seem like they will meet your expectations find another IDC. And don't forget that there are other agencies. You are not under any obligation to stay with one. Biggest reason I am with the one I am with is our standards which I feel are higher and the fact that they fully support me adding to and increasing those standards. The fact is our standards require me to do just that.Amd never forget that standards, shop rules, etc should never trump your own moral and ethical standards. Should anyone try to get you to di that tell em to take a flying leap.
Platy Von Kippington
Registered
Jim,
In defense of the LDS I am taking it through, they are one of, if not the most professional in the area and have really gone out of their way to take care of me. While there is quite a bit of "the internet is evil" kind of talk, and there's almost no support for DIR, Tec, or BP/W setups, they are far and away the best shop I've been in. It is a PADI shop, and there has been a deposit placed on the course and I've already been scheduled in (no going back now). PADI makes the most sense for me as I would be very interested in at least trying life abroad. If it comes to it that my personal standards no longer agree with those of PADI, I will cross over into another agency, possibly explore independent options. My main concern is with the lack of personalized advice and an undertone of "just get them certified". This could just be me, however, as I ask a million questions down to the finest details that would try just about any instructor's patience. Then again, I have also seen a fair share of certified divers doing the doggy paddle and have in a few cases personally been paired up with divers in situations that were well above their comfort level and could have had disastrous consequences (for what it's worth, these divers were spoken with post-dive).
All in all, they do run a business and obviously would like more. As much as I admire your approach, I just can't imagine an OW class with a level of standards and instruction similar to yours would go over well. The current setup is 4 days with about 12 hours of class time and 10-12 hours pool time. Stuctured around knowledge reviews and pool skills. I think this is much better than the "one weekend wonder" I've read about, but at the time of certification, I "didn't know what I didn't know", and now that I do know, there were definitely things left desired from my instruction.
In defense of the LDS I am taking it through, they are one of, if not the most professional in the area and have really gone out of their way to take care of me. While there is quite a bit of "the internet is evil" kind of talk, and there's almost no support for DIR, Tec, or BP/W setups, they are far and away the best shop I've been in. It is a PADI shop, and there has been a deposit placed on the course and I've already been scheduled in (no going back now). PADI makes the most sense for me as I would be very interested in at least trying life abroad. If it comes to it that my personal standards no longer agree with those of PADI, I will cross over into another agency, possibly explore independent options. My main concern is with the lack of personalized advice and an undertone of "just get them certified". This could just be me, however, as I ask a million questions down to the finest details that would try just about any instructor's patience. Then again, I have also seen a fair share of certified divers doing the doggy paddle and have in a few cases personally been paired up with divers in situations that were well above their comfort level and could have had disastrous consequences (for what it's worth, these divers were spoken with post-dive).
All in all, they do run a business and obviously would like more. As much as I admire your approach, I just can't imagine an OW class with a level of standards and instruction similar to yours would go over well. The current setup is 4 days with about 12 hours of class time and 10-12 hours pool time. Stuctured around knowledge reviews and pool skills. I think this is much better than the "one weekend wonder" I've read about, but at the time of certification, I "didn't know what I didn't know", and now that I do know, there were definitely things left desired from my instruction.
Hi Jim
I'm a newbie BSAC OD (12 dives) and I just discovered this fantastic forum where I learn a lot. For the responsibility side I agree that I'm responsible for myself when diving, but there is area where I completly rely on my experienced budy: navigation. I still have so much to master during the dive (as if I had a very good and deep training) : looking around
, improve my bouyancy, improve my fin skills to spare air, master my breathing... Isn't it the intent when BSAC doesn't allow two OD to dive together, use buddy skills to progress? We have a learning curve and we cannot handle everything from the beginning. So I desagree a little with the statement that said if we are not able to dive alone don't dive...
I'm a newbie BSAC OD (12 dives) and I just discovered this fantastic forum where I learn a lot. For the responsibility side I agree that I'm responsible for myself when diving, but there is area where I completly rely on my experienced budy: navigation. I still have so much to master during the dive (as if I had a very good and deep training) : looking around
, improve my bouyancy, improve my fin skills to spare air, master my breathing... Isn't it the intent when BSAC doesn't allow two OD to dive together, use buddy skills to progress? We have a learning curve and we cannot handle everything from the beginning. So I desagree a little with the statement that said if we are not able to dive alone don't dive...
Hi Jim
I'm a newbie BSAC OD (12 dives) and I just discovered this fantastic forum where I learn a lot. For the responsibility side I agree that I'm responsible for myself when diving, but there is area where I completly rely on my experienced budy: navigation. I still have so much to master during the dive (as if I had a very good and deep training) : looking around, improve my bouyancy, improve my fin skills to spare air, master my breathing... Isn't it the intent when BSAC doesn't allow two OD to dive together, use buddy skills to progress? We have a learning curve and we cannot handle everything from the beginning. So I desagree a little with the statement that said if we are not able to dive alone don't dive...
Hi,
And welcome to both the forum and diving (dont forget there are the BSAC forums, see here.
I must correct you on the two Ocean Divers bit. It might be something your Branch discourages, but it is permissible.
BSAC Instructor Manual:
Its also spelt out here.
During the monthly training days I run on (or is it in) Loch Fyne I do pair up ODs for a pleasure dive. It helps build their confidence as, often, these are the first dives where they dont have an experienced diver leading them.
Kind regards
OP
I'm glad Edward chimed in here as there was no way for me to address the intent of BSAC training. I don't have a copy of the BSAC standards so I don't know what they do and do not allow. I also don't know what the entry level class contains. I wrote this to address what I saw as deficiencies in training that I am familiar with and have myself experienced. Thanks for your comments and for some inspiration for a new project to work on over the winter.
Thank you for the answer Edward and obviously I didn't read that before. But OD training doesn't encompass navigation, when are we supposed to learn that? Is it during recreational dives (obviously) or/and is it part of SD scheme (what I supposed before)?
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