Who owns your hobby?

[Teamcasa]

Who owns my hobby? I do.

I get where you are going with this, I think.

Speaking solely from a recreational diver's perspective (not a commercial, military, public safety or otherwise professional), diving is one of my hobbies and I treat it as such. However, most hobbies do not carry with it the risk diving does. I take diving very seriously but never forget the reason I dive is to relax and enjoy myself.

No doubt and like many other hobbies, there are those elite practitioners. They are the ones that push the limits and are constantly on the leading edge of new technologies. They constantly push manufacturers to build better equipment. I thank them all.

However, sometimes, some of those same divers will dismiss and forsake all others diving styles and have no problem telling others to do the same. Oh well, I see it as their issue, not mine.

Again, for me, once diving moves out of the realm of pleasure and enjoyment I will just focus on one of my other hobbies more intently.

 

[ReefHound]

Using an online dictionary, I get this definition: Scuba diving: the activity or recreation of diving or exploring underwater through use of a scuba device.

Who owns that?

- PADI (or one of the look alikes)
- your instructor?
- people on an internet forum?
- DIR divers?
- Cave divers?
- some other special group of divers? Maybe someone who uses (or doesn't use) a certain piece of gear or what not?

The local dive shops would have you believe the LDS does. They are the ones always claiming that if the dive shops all dry up and go away because of all the evil internets people then you'll have no place to get air fills or gear service or training or information/advice on local diving or dive buddies, and that then the industry will die.

 

[Dtaine]

In every endeavor there are going to be elitists. People or groups who, for one reason or another, believe they can make a claim to the "properties" of the act being performed. People who put themselves forth as "authorities" by the sheer thrust of hot-air...

Scuba diving is no different.

Before going further, let's just get a definition out there. When we are scuba diving, what are we doing?
Using an online dictionary, I get this definition: Scuba diving: the activity or recreation of diving or exploring underwater through use of a scuba device.

yep, that's kind of how it is, I chalk it up to basic human nature

Who owns that?

- PADI (or one of the look alikes)
- your instructor?
- people on an internet forum?
- DIR divers?
- Cave divers?
- some other special group of divers? Maybe someone who uses (or doesn't use) a certain piece of gear or what not?

nope, none of those groups own my diving, I do and to some degree my buddy does as well

Unfortunately for the average diver many such groups have done a pretty good job of propaganda. In main lines we often hear things, either directly or implied the follow the gist of :

They've also done a hell of a job of improving the equipment and safety of diving, and given tons of people the opportunity to explore the underwater world.

1) Group A rejects the level of skill and/or training that group B has and therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers

I don't blame them for this, it's a result of a litigious society and the nature of competition in business.

2) Group A rejects procedures and/or the norms and/or values of group B therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers

same reasons as #1 really

3) Group A rejects group B's gear choices and therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers

If this is a reference to DIR divers, then you really don't understand that DIR is far more than just the gear. It's a part of it of course, but it's only the tip of everything involved. I definitely wouldn't call myself a DIR diver, for a number of reasons, but it's the direction I'm going.

I call their bluff.

I see your call and raise the pot.

Anyone who dives or explores underwater using a scuba device is a proper diver. Regardless of skill level; regardless of procedures, techniques, gear and... (yes even this) regardless of how much risk they're consciously choose to accept.

I disagree, someone who is consistently violating tables and ascent rates, putting their buddies at risk, and simply being downright unsafe underwater is NOT a "proper" diver.

If you don't believe so then you are an elitist and probably should stop reading now (to save valuable time) and go think about how you can become a better human being.

So that makes you a "better human being" than me? WHOSE THE ELITIST THEN?!?

What matters is this. Diving is a hobby. What we get is the return (in terms of fun) on the investment in making the dive. Nothing else. I challenge the preconception that we have (or should have) some sense of "universal" norms other than the real biggies that are bigger than our own personal choices, like not damaging coral reefs.

If people don't at least understand basic safety principles of diving then I truly believe they should stay out of the water. Diving might be a hobby, but it's a hobby that can kill. It's much like another hobby I have, climbing - if you don't follow simple rules, and understand basic safety procedures, then you can get yourself or others killed.

Elitists in this sport have far to much latitude (and leverage) due to their successful PR to take the fun out of diving; to make beginners feel as if they aren't "real" divers; to frustrate divers of all skill and experience levels from all walks of life by holding up some kind of "hero" stereotype of perfection. This negativity should really end and I hope that this post makes people aware that listening to the elitists, while one possible choice, should not be made without the full realisation that ignoring them is an equally satisfactory choice.

The elitists in our sport combine to expand the boundaries of diving, improve safe diving practices, and help make diving easier for those new to the sport. Sure there's some bad attitudes around, but I'd say the vast majority seeks more to help new divers, not hurt their experiences or stop the "fun".

Natrually, ignoring elitists isn't going to make them go away. It isn't going to change them. It isn't going to make them happy. It probably won't even stop them from being right from time to time. But it isn't going to give them any chances to ruin our fun either©Ând I would encourage everyone to carefully consider how much of their valuable time they're willing to "waste" on discussions that are ultimately contrived by the few to take the fun out of diving for the many.

R..

 

[sea nmf]

I sort of focused on the word "proper" as well. My thought process was that there is actually a proper way to scuba dive. This are taught in the OW certification classes. Beyond that, it's all frosting.

We would encourage each other and help each other to grow in our hobby/sport. That is natural in any sport. But that takes place when someone wants to grow or change, not when someone else wants to tell another how to dive.

If you have a certification, you are a proper diver. All of the other judgements are just so much noise. I would venture to guess that most or us judge other divers at one time or another. My judgements have to do with whether or not they are, in my own opinion, a good diver or a bad diver or an adequate diver. For me, this does not have to do with gear choice. And my judgement doesn't mean anything, anyway.

 

[DennisS]

I like exploring underwater, scuba is another tool. I'm not all that interested in going where 1000 divers have been. I like rooting around down there. I like looking for old wrecks in 20 feet of water-that was the draft of the galleons. I like going down and seeing what that odd thing on the sonar is.

I'm not really interested if other divers can do an underwater pirouette and remain motionless while they fiddle with their gear. I'm impressed by someone that can go down 300 ft safely and handle multiple gasses, I'm more impressed by commercial hunters that can nail a hundred pound grouper at that depth. It's not what I do.

Who owns my hobby, never gave it any thought. I own my tank, regulator and boat, I go where I please, when I want.

Freedom of the seas has worked for me.

 

[divinginn]

What I have noticed over many years of being in this sport is that the one that really know their stuff will not usually be the ones blowing their own horn,telling everyone how great they are. They will be the ones that can give you some great tips if you ask or just pay attention to what and how they do things. The more someone tells me how great they are,the less I pay attention to them and generally stay far away from them.

 

[DaleC]

I look at this and the other post in two ways really.

True, I "own" my diving but only a fool believes he knows everything about something before he/she even starts.
In order to learn effectively I often "cede" authority to others. I do this temporarily in order to gain the benefit of their experience. There's nothing worse than someone who asks for advice and then argues every point because they can't handle being in the passenger seat. I try to be big enough to shut up and listen once in a while.

At first my PADI instructor owned my diving. I let him tell me how to dive (kneel here, fin pivot there), when to dive, where to dive, what to use and who to dive with. By doing so I gained the benefit of his experience and learned to dive the PADI way (which was a lot better than the way I knew before meeting him).

At some point I broke that "contract" (either when I took off my snorkel or began soloing, I can't remember which) though I still respect him immensely and talk to him almost every week.

I have also let some more experienced buddies "own" my diving at times as well. Whether it was by watching and learning by letting them develop the plan for more demanding dives or by allowing them to "mentor" me in some skills or understanding; I wanted what they had, so I did what they told me (and was glad they took the time to do so).

Currently I see another organization of divers who also have something I want so I will try working within that system as well. While doing so I will agree to "do as they do" so I have the greatest chance of learning what they know. I guess they will "own" my diving in a sense when we are together.

I don't have a problem with being both an individual and a team player.

Perhaps it may seem that I am a follower to some but I am far more piratical than that. My goal has always been to pillage the experience of others to add to my own treasure chest. With a rich treasure chest I will then have the option of diving exactly the way I want to.

If my ego is so fragile that I can't stand the thought of putting myself in the passenger seat to learn once in a while then I will have a pretty piss poor treasure chest and be forced to dive with what little I have.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

We all own this sport in our own minds and in our own way I suppose. In every activity there will always be a leapfrogging of ideas, better gear choices, different techniques, new technology.

The only thing for certain is change.

There will always be a constant evolutiuon and some people/philosophies are very resistant to change.

 

[gcbryan]

In every endeavor there are going to be elitists. People or groups who, for one reason or another, believe they can make a claim to the "properties" of the act being performed. People who put themselves forth as "authorities" by the sheer thrust of hot-air...

Scuba diving is no different.

Before going further, let's just get a definition out there. When we are scuba diving, what are we doing?
Using an online dictionary, I get this definition: Scuba diving: the activity or recreation of diving or exploring underwater through use of a scuba device.

Who owns that?

- PADI (or one of the look alikes)
- your instructor?
- people on an internet forum?
- DIR divers?
- Cave divers?
- some other special group of divers? Maybe someone who uses (or doesn't use) a certain piece of gear or what not?

Unfortunately for the average diver many such groups have done a pretty good job of propaganda. In main lines we often hear things, either directly or implied the follow the gist of :

1) Group A rejects the level of skill and/or training that group B has and therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers
2) Group A rejects procedures and/or the norms and/or values of group B therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers
3) Group A rejects group B's gear choices and therefore refuses to accept them as (proper) divers

I call their bluff.

Anyone who dives or explores underwater using a scuba device is a proper diver. Regardless of skill level; regardless of procedures, techniques, gear and... (yes even this) regardless of how much risk they're consciously choose to accept.

If you don't believe so then you are an elitist and probably should stop reading now (to save valuable time) and go think about how you can become a better human being.

What matters is this. Diving is a hobby. What we get is the return (in terms of fun) on the investment in making the dive. Nothing else. I challenge the preconception that we have (or should have) some sense of "universal" norms other than the real biggies that are bigger than our own personal choices, like not damaging coral reefs.

Elitists in this sport have far to much latitude (and leverage) due to their successful PR to take the fun out of diving; to make beginners feel as if they aren't "real" divers; to frustrate divers of all skill and experience levels from all walks of life by holding up some kind of "hero" stereotype of perfection. This negativity should really end and I hope that this post makes people aware that listening to the elitists, while one possible choice, should not be made without the full realisation that ignoring them is an equally satisfactory choice.

Natrually, ignoring elitists isn't going to make them go away. It isn't going to change them. It isn't going to make them happy. It probably won't even stop them from being right from time to time. But it isn't going to give them any chances to ruin our fun either©Ând I would encourage everyone to carefully consider how much of their valuable time they're willing to "waste" on discussions that are ultimately contrived by the few to take the fun out of diving for the many.

R..

I'm not sure I understand your motivation for this post although it's not essential that I do I suppose. An elitist posting on the internet doesn't/can't take the fun out of my diving and I guess I don't understand how they can take the fun out of your diving or anyone else's diving.

In real life I don't run into many. Dive buddies are generally people who I feel comfortable with as far as their dive skills and who are also people I enjoy hanging out with. I don't really see how anyone can take the fun out of diving for anyone.

I think what you mean is that there are many people posting on the internet that you don't agree with and that you find annoying. How is that different than any other aspect of life?

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm not sure why you need me to spell this out for you but by "proper" I -- obviously -- was not referring to the definition commonly in use in grammar nor was I reaching for 14 century etymologies.

I think you probably understood perfectly well what I meant and I'm reading your response (for better or worse) as a clever attempt to derail the thread in semantics from the get-go.

Have fun. I'm not particularly interested in that mode of discussion.

R..

I *don't* need you to spell it out for me and I *did* understand perfectly what you meant.

1 a. 1 a referring to one individual only

The reference to "one individual only" was in support that only one person can "own" their diving; themselves.

Sorry that you see it differently.